Rear caliper shudder

[Asphaltmaniac]

Have been living with this problem quite a few years now.
Here is a time line for what has been done with my bought new 2006 wing.
2007 switch to an aftermarket exhaust without a heat shield between the muffler and rear caliper. Not too long after that. Rear caliper in bumper to bumper hot summer day will shudder depressing the rear brake pedal only. Get up to speed things cool off and the shudder disappears. Made perfect sense to me so did not worry much about it.

A few years ago, 2016ish or thereabouts, aftermarket exhaust rotted away internally. A real shame as it looked and sounded amazing. Reinstalled the stock exhaust. I figured OK no more shuddering. Nope, still does it.
Maintenance I have personally done, or had done.
Flushed the brake system every two years since new. (no, really I have).
Honda did the rear master recall years ago.
Back in 2018 I decided all the calipers need rebuilding. 12years old with 200K so why not? Removed and cleaned reassembled with all new hardware and piston seals.
Also about 2019 the rear brake rotor was replaced as It was below minimum.
The brakes feel great, responsive with not a hint of mushiness.
And have used Honda pads since I bought it.

Didn't sit in bumper to bumper very hot conditions this summer. But a few days ago at 30mph the rear caliper shuddered. Wasn't sitting in any traffic at all and it was not a particularly hot day. Figured, time to
see if anyone in gold wings docs has an idea

[Rambozo]

Excessive clearance and/or lack of lubrication on caliper pins/bushings.

[Asphaltmaniac]

I have cleaned and lightly re-lubed the pins over the years. They get crusty enough I believe the brakes can drag. There is that pin that holds the shoes in place at one end. If its worn a bit...maybe?

[dlewis1906]

Excessive clearance and/or lack of lubrication on caliper pins/bushings.

I did not know you could lube that pin. What lube are you putting on it? Are you concerned that it would get on the pads or rotor?

I have not experience the shuttering issue. I also have an 06 Wing.

[Rambozo]

I did not know you could lube that pin. What lube are you putting on it? Are you concerned that it would get on the pads or rotor?

I have not experience the shuttering issue. I also have an 06 Wing.

Specific high temp brake lube. I use a Wurth product, but there are many good brands. I have even seen little ketchup pack type packets on the counter at auto parts stores.

It's all spelled out in the service manual.

[Asphaltmaniac]

Only the guide pins are lubed. Was just wondering if that hanger pin did get worn slightly could it cause either pad to go a little cockeyed?
Sounds like a long shot to me...ha!

[GoldWingrGreg]

Regaurding the brake pins that hold the pads in. Per Honda, only the o-ring gets lubbed. If the pin get lubed, where it makes contact to the pads, the paste/gel will then collect dust, and can make things worst. Think of it as carb linkage. The idea is that it needs to be clean ... not lubed too. Any pin that shows wear needs replaced. Honda wants the o-ring area lubed with silicone paste/gel.

[Asphaltmaniac]

Yea I just dont know how much of a wear item they are to cause an occasional shudder? Well, been giving this a lot of thought past few days and the rear pads have 16K. So maybe one piston is moving before the others and giving me this occasional, especially when hot, shudder issue? If so, maybe I would see odd wear with a very close inspection.

[jukester]

If the rear brake pedal shudder only occurs when hot and disappears when front brake is applied; then you may still have air in the system and should try the "Rocky bleed" linked below or you can find it on Goldwing Docs under Rear Brake Shudder.

/Docs/GL1800%20 ... aac858b910

[dlewis1906]

This is great information. I will try this on my next brake fluid change. I would assume that the brake fluid from the junction box would just flow onto the a towel.

[jukester]

Yes, just crack it enough for some fluid to run into a towel and then re-tighten.

[GoldWingrGreg]

This is great information. I will try this on my next brake fluid change. I would assume that the brake fluid from the junction box would just flow onto the a towel.

Many have tried that, and even Rocky. Unfortunanly, the symptom is ellusive, and eventually returns.

I thought I had already shared this here, but apparently did somewhere else. The rear brake shutter issue is a yearly conversation that always resurfaces. If it happens, it's usually on hot days, and the issue, gereally speaking, is ellusive, it can be difficult to reproduce. Ellusive as in others have done various things thinking that they fixed it, only to discover, that to their suprise, it really is ellusive, and the following summer, it reappears. Some report that they've called Honda customer care, and been told that it's a known issue, and the only known cure for it is to use both brakes.

I've known 3 people who supposidly have tried to replace all brake parts on a 5th gen Wing. They've been determinded to correct their sutter issue. They've replace brake lines, brake hoses, master cylinders, calipers, pads, rotors ... etc. And the issue might be gone for the remainder of that summer, but not the next one.

My advise is this. Spend your time fixing/maintaining your Wing, and don't waist time on the brake-shutter issue.

[Asphaltmaniac]

This is great information. I will try this on my next brake fluid change. I would assume that the brake fluid from the junction box would just flow onto the a towel.

Many have tried that, and even Rocky. Unfortunanly, the symptom is ellusive, and eventually returns.

I thought I had already shared this here, but apparently did somewhere else. The rear brake shutter issue is a yearly conversation that always resurfaces. If it happens, it's usually on hot days, and the issue, gereally speaking, is ellusive, it can be difficult to reproduce. Ellusive as in others have done various things thinking that they fixed it, only to discover, that to their suprise, it really is ellusive, and the following summer, it reappears. Some report that they've called Honda customer care, and been told that it's a known issue, and the only known cure for it is to use both brakes.

I've known 3 people who supposidly have tried to replace all brake parts on a 5th gen Wing. They've been determinded to correct their sutter issue. They've replace brake lines, brake hoses, master cylinders, calipers, pads, rotors ... etc. And the issue might be gone for the remainder of that summer, but not the next one.

I did read that shudder fix. But the difference between that guy and me is I have a nice firm pedal. Firm lever and pedal, nice responsive braking. Whats not to like?
I have always followed the exact procedure in the manual when bleeding. Also vast majority of time I am light on my brakes. I anticipate traffic and coast to a stop and or downshift for engine braking. So I'm thinking that with my light touch and maybe one piston is moving before the others and the pads get slightly cockeyed and shudder. I dont know grasping at straws here. I've got 16k on the rear pads. I will pull them and see if there is any measurable difference in thickness end to end.

Greg. Have you ever seen guide pin wear. Even if its barely noticeable?

[GoldWingrGreg]

Greg. Have you ever seen guide pin wear. Even if its barely noticeable?

Of coarse we see guide pin wear. Those mount pins get replaced all the time here. If you replace yours, be sure to order the o-ring at the end too, and only lube the o-ring. Honda wants it lubed with silicone paste/gel.

[Asphaltmaniac]

Yes thats the pin hanger with the O ring. I mean the pins with rubber boots. One looks replaceable, the other is on the sub assembly bracket. You ever seen those worn??

[GoldWingrGreg]

Yes thats the pin hanger with the O ring. I mean the pins with rubber boots. One looks replaceable, the other is on the sub assembly bracket. You ever seen those worn??

Yes ... we've relaced a few over the years and often enough to keep all 3 in stock. Anytime the brakes are inspected, which on a 5th gen needs done every 4,000 miles, we remove the pads, and push/pull on the caliper to see how well the slides are sliding. If they don't slide easily, the first thing to try is to clean the slide pins, inspect them and their bore. If all good, relube them; then, reinspect their sliding action. Also, inspect for evan pad wear from side to side on a pad set each pad set.

[Asphaltmaniac]

Yes thats the pin hanger with the O ring. I mean the pins with rubber boots. One looks replaceable, the other is on the sub assembly bracket. You ever seen those worn??

Yes ... we've relaced a few over the years and often enough to keep all 3 in stock. Anytime the brakes are inspected, which on a 5th gen needs done every 4,000 miles, we remove the pads, and push/pull on the caliper to see how well the slides are sliding. If they don't slide easily, the first thing to try is to clean the slide pins, inspect them and their bore. If all good, relube them; then, reinspect their sliding action. Also, inspect for evan pad wear from side to side on a pad set each pad set.

I've cleaned/relubed them every so once in awhile over the years. But, never really looked at them close enough looking for signs of wear, as it never really occurred to me.
I will do so soon as I have 16K on the rear pads since changing them in June.

[GoldWingrGreg]

Yes thats the pin hanger with the O ring. I mean the pins with rubber boots. One looks replaceable, the other is on the sub assembly bracket. You ever seen those worn??

Yes ... we've relaced a few over the years and often enough to keep all 3 slide pins, and brackets with pins in stock.

We keep pad pins, slide pins, brackets, boots, and retainer clips all in stock. The slide pins and their bores need inspected every 4,000 miles.

[wl.edwards]

It’s the anti dive valve that is oscillating. At least it was on my 2006 GL1800.

[rholcomb]

Being retired after 45 years working in the Service Department of a Honda Car Dealership this problem was seen nearly daily. The cause was always 1 of 2 issues; sticking/corroded pins as thoroughly discussed in this topic and the other was the rotor. Most of the time the issue was the rotor. Honda cars, and bikes as well, are extremely sensitive to rotor parallelism and excessive runout. Either can cause intermittent shudder issues with no rhyme or reason as to when it may happen. The rotors are also sensitive to uneven torque when being installed. Be sure the rotor mounting bolts are torqued to spec by the procedure outlined by the manufacturer. I live in Virginia and am a Department of State Police Class A Safety Inspector. This problem got to be so bad a few years back that a law was passed prohibiting the use of an impact gun when reinstalling the wheels on cars after they had been removed to inspect brake pad thickness. The impact gun would not torque the wheel evenly and to proper specification which in turn would alter the runout on the rotor and within a couple thousand miles would actually warp the rotor permanently and create the problem. Also if the mounting surface of the rotor is not spotlessly clean, even a small spec of dirt or light rust will cause the rotor to be out of alignment with it's mounting surface. Over time the heating and cooling of the rotor during normal usage will cause the rotor to permanently warp. I would suggest you remove the caliper and, with a micrometer, check the thickness of the rotor at the outermost area, center area, and innermost area at intervals of 1-2 inches around the entire rotor circumference . Refer to the parallelism specification and if not within specification, replace the rotor. Although I have had success with resurfacing GL rotors it is not recommended and takes a seriously competent machinist. After this measurement, use a dial indicator suitably mounted and check for runout. Compare your findings to the Honda specification and if not in spec, replace the rotor. This sounds like a lot of trouble just to get some measurements, and it is, but it sounds like you are up against a wall and really want to fix the shudder issue. The mechanics of what is happening here is simple but hard to find. If the rotor is not near perfectly within spec, as the rotor turns (if out of spec by either of the two measuring methods above) the thicker part (parallelism) will apply more braking force as this section of the rotor passes through the pads. Remember, the braking pressure is fixed by your foot on the pedal or hand on the brake lever. Before the caliper can slide on the pins, something has to push it. If runout is excessive, as the rotor turns, it will push the caliper back and forth on the pins which also puts intermittent uneven pressure on the pads which also creates the shuddering. I don't know if this information will help but it sounds like you have done everything else to track down this gremlin. Good Luck!

[klook]

Interesting topic, I bled mine down recently and did a few fairly long rides, for me. On the last one returning home, my brakes developed a shudder. I have never had it happen. Not that I have very many miles behind me on a Goldwing. My anti dive has the spacer installed, should prevent that. Time to look at the brakes closely.