Engine starts and then turns off


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Char Lee
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Location: Puebla, Puebla, Mexico
Motorcycle: 2013 Roadsmith GL1800

Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Char Lee »



I have a problem with a 2013 Roadsmith GL1800: when I start the engine it turns off after 4 seconds and the engine cannot be started again, unless the switch is closed and opened again, but 4 seconds later the engine stops. turns off. When reviewing the fault memory, I have registered fault memory number 12, which is directed to injector 1.
I checked injector 1 and did not find any problem, I moved it and put it in the place of injector 5, but the fault returns and the engine continues to shut down after 4 seconds, the fault memory registers injector 1 again despite exchange injectors


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Rambozo
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Rambozo »

Sounds like you might have a bad ECU.
I would also check what was done with the BAS. They don't like extra wheels. :twisted:
And of course, check the wiring to #1 injector.
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tamathumper
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by tamathumper »

By "switch" do you mean the ignition switch or the emergency shut off switch?
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by WingAdmin »

Definitely sounds like a bad bank angle switch to me - it should have been removed and bypassed for a trike. Sounds like it wasn't, or the bypass has failed.
Char Lee
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Char Lee »

Rambozo wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:30 am Sounds like you might have a bad ECU.
I would also check what was done with the BAS. They don't like extra wheels. :twisted:
And of course, check the wiring to #1 injector.
Good thank you.
What do you mean by "BAS"? I don't know what "BAS" is. Three-wheeled motorcycles are comfortable.
I checked the continuity, and possible short circuit, of the wire (pink/blue) that goes from the ECM to injector 1; without finding any problem. ;)
Char Lee
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Char Lee »

tamathumper wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 5:24 am By "switch" do you mean the ignition switch or the emergency shut off switch?

I mean the ignition switch with the key
Char Lee
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Char Lee »

WingAdmin wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:10 pm Definitely sounds like a bad bank angle switch to me - it should have been removed and bypassed for a trike. Sounds like it wasn't, or the bypass has failed.
It is not like that, I also checked the fall sensor (bank angle switch), and its operation is fine, I even omitted it by connecting it directly
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

BAS = bank angle sensor.

Just so we're on the same page. DTC code #12 represents cylinder #1's fuel injctor's circute. Cylinder #1 is the right front cylinder, and it is referenced as if operating the vehical. #12 is represented by one long flash and two short ones.

As for the BAS, if the BAS faults or the bike falls over and gets picked up, the key has to be cylcled for restarting, and that might be why others wondering about your BAS.

From my arm chair, your issue is odd. Here is what the Service manual says.

Have you pulled the spark plugs to see how they are firing ??? They should all look even and white. Were there no other DTC codes ??? If you clear the code(s), hook injectors #1 and 5 back up correctly, and restart, does DTC code #12 get thrown again ???
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Char Lee
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Char Lee »

GoldWingrGreg wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:14 pm BAS = bank angle sensor.

Just so we're on the same page. DTC code #12 represents cylinder #1's fuel injctor's circute. Cylinder #1 is the right front cylinder, and it is referenced as if operating the vehical. #12 is represented by one long flash and two short ones.

As for the BAS, if the BAS faults or the bike falls over and gets picked up, the key has to be cylcled for restarting, and that might be why others wondering about your BAS.

From my arm chair, your issue is odd. Here is what the Service manual says.

Have you pulled the spark plugs to see how they are firing ??? They should all look even and white. Were there no other DTC codes ??? If you clear the code(s), hook injectors #1 and 5 back up correctly, and restart, does DTC code #12 get thrown again ???
Perfect, the BAS checked it, it was omitted by connecting directly, and the failure continues.
That's right, the DTC code is the number 12, which represents injector 1 (the first right front one).
Regarding the spark plugs, I already checked them; They are all good, even the one involved with injector 1.
In my case; Every time I start the engine, it turns off after 4 seconds, the engine cannot be started, you close the ignition switch, open it and you can start the engine again. The same DTC code appears (number 12), even if I erase it, it always appears every time the engine is started, and obviously only the engine turns off.
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GoldWingrGreg
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

Char Lee wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:39 pm Perfect, the BAS checked it, it was omitted by connecting directly, and the failure continues.
That's right, the DTC code is the number 12, which represents injector 1 (the first right front one).
Regarding the spark plugs, I already checked them; They are all good, even the one involved with injector 1.
In my case; Every time I start the engine, it turns off after 4 seconds, the engine cannot be started, you close the ignition switch, open it and you can start the engine again. The same DTC code appears (number 12), even if I erase it, it always appears every time the engine is started, and obviously only the engine turns off.
The circute includes an injector, an ECM, and related wiring. From here in my arm chair, the fact that all spark plugs look the same, and once DTC code 12 is errase, and it reoccurs, to me means that your issue is not an injector. However, if you wanted too, you could swap injectors, not the wiring to them, and recheck to see if the DTC code changes.

Here are some things to check. To issolate a related wiring issue, I'd start with wiggling dedicated wires to that injector. On most Wings, the 4 forward injector wires are routed under the radiator stay. Sometimes the space between the stay and the intake manifold is tight. Everytime I re-install radiator stays, I wiggle the wires making sure they are not trapped and bound. Since the injector harness is not expensive, another option is to replace that part of the harness. Part #5 in the fishe below. Also, remove the connector from the injector and look for any corrotion. Everytime I plug one back in, I listen for 2 clicks. The other end of the injector harness plugs into a boot at the back of the radiator. Check and clean that connector too. https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/hon ... 6/injector

If it ends up being an actual injector issue, here at JustWings, we'd send all 6 injectors to be flow tested and cleaned. We use Kurt at https://www.advancedinjector.com. He's familure with 5th gens and used to have one.
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Asphaltmaniac »

Did this issue start up suddenly or was there something else going on before this, no matter how minor? Also any recent maintenance no matter how minor done within the last 6 months or so. I dont see any connection to whats been described as happening and a problem with the #1 injector. Seems to me the bike should run even if poorly. Not shut down.
In trouble shooting the question is asked "does the engine start but stop".
If yes. Leaking intake manifold gasket
Faulty idle air control valve
improper ignition timing (faulty ECM or crankshaft position sensor)
Contaminated fuel

I dont get the mil spec code you are getting. But did see a reference in the factory manual that the ECU can be damaged by disconnecting it when the bike is running or dropping it.
Techdude2000
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Techdude2000 »

Char Lee wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 11:39 pm
GoldWingrGreg wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2023 12:14 pm BAS = bank angle sensor.

Just so we're on the same page. DTC code #12 represents cylinder #1's fuel injctor's circute. Cylinder #1 is the right front cylinder, and it is referenced as if operating the vehical. #12 is represented by one long flash and two short ones.

As for the BAS, if the BAS faults or the bike falls over and gets picked up, the key has to be cylcled for restarting, and that might be why others wondering about your BAS.

From my arm chair, your issue is odd. Here is what the Service manual says.

Have you pulled the spark plugs to see how they are firing ??? They should all look even and white. Were there no other DTC codes ??? If you clear the code(s), hook injectors #1 and 5 back up correctly, and restart, does DTC code #12 get thrown again ???
Perfect, the BAS checked it, it was omitted by connecting directly, and the failure continues.
That's right, the DTC code is the number 12, which represents injector 1 (the first right front one).
Regarding the spark plugs, I already checked them; They are all good, even the one involved with injector 1.
In my case; Every time I start the engine, it turns off after 4 seconds, the engine cannot be started, you close the ignition switch, open it and you can start the engine again. The same DTC code appears (number 12), even if I erase it, it always appears every time the engine is started, and obviously only the engine turns off.
Did you check the injector continuity from the ECM plug? If not you should. If it checks good, then turn on the key and check for battery voltage on the Injector's brown wire. If that checks good and moving the injector to another cylinder doesn’t change the code, The ECM has an internal failure and needs replaced.
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by baba67 »

First thing I would do is purchase a noid light and plug it into the injector connector and see what happens when the engine cuts out.
Very inexpensive and useful on fuel injection issues.
rusty43
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by rusty43 »

Some autos do this same thing when starting without a chipped ignition key. I don’t know if your bike has one? I ran into this problem when installing a remote start on my grand Cherokee, without a chipped key inside the car, it would shut off after 4 seconds. But the codes you are seeing seem unrelated to that specific problem, if in fact the bake has the chipped/anti-theft key.
Techdude2000
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Techdude2000 »

There’s no chipped key if it’s a US version wing. The European versions have the HISS system that does require a chipped, programmed key.
Quintin
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Quintin »

This comes out of left field. Worked on a Polaris Ranger that would start and run for maybe a minute. Crank and nothing would happen. Cycle the ignition sw and it would start right up. Had me stumped. Ended up being the reg/rect. Near as I could determine the bad reg would spike and the high voltage protection in the ECU would shut it off.
Char Lee
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Char Lee »

rusty43 wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 2:14 pm Some autos do this same thing when starting without a chipped ignition key. I don’t know if your bike has one? I ran into this problem when installing a remote start on my grand Cherokee, without a chipped key inside the car, it would shut off after 4 seconds. But the codes you are seeing seem unrelated to that specific problem, if in fact the bake has the chipped/anti-theft key.
No my friend, my motorcycle does not have a chip in the key, you can even start it without the ignition switch by just bridging the connector
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Photog101
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Re: Engine starts and then turns off

Post by Photog101 »

No one has touched on fuel delivery. I'd check to see if and when you're getting fuel to the injectors.
When you turn the key on, it sounds like the fuel rail gets a shot of fuel. After it starts it sounds like it's not getting fuel, until you recycle the key.
Try that and if that's the gremlin find out if it's a fuse, relay or fuel pump or wiring.
I hope this helps.
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