NEED HELP/IDEAS


Information and questions on GL1800 Goldwings (2001-2017)
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TYPBMEDIC
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Motorcycle: 2002 HONDA GOLDWING GL1800

NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by TYPBMEDIC »



So here's my problem... I have a 2002 GL1800 with 63000m on it. I just bought 3 months ago and it ran great for about 400 miles suddenly, after I have it out riding for 25 to 30 mins it starts running so rough I cant get over 20 mph! In fact sometimes it have to pull over to a complete stop. The temp is good [did flush a few weeks ago]. NOW here's the unique symptom,... when I turn it off and start it back up and allows me to get back on the road and up to speed ...but only for another 5 minutes! Then starts running rough again! I have to then work my way home and park it for a day! Then next day I can start all over and ride for about 25 to 30 minutes and it just starts all over again! I have already replaced the thermostat [again, it is NOT over heating] and new plugs. ... considering the ECM ..?


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Charlie1Horse
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by Charlie1Horse »

I had a problem something like what you describe with a 1988 Dodge Dakota pickup truck with over 200,000 miles. It would run really good for a while and run ragged and quit. Wait for a few minutes and it would run well again for a while. When I finally found the problem, it turned out to be a bad fuel hose behind the throttle body injection. This current gasoline had deteriorated the inside layer of the fuel hose and actually 'chipped' off a piece of that inside layer. That piece of rubber would lay in the bottom of the hose for a while and then, I suppose, due to the pulsation of the fuel pump, would lift up and block the fuel inlet to the throttle body and would remain there as long as there was positive pressure in the hose. When the pressure resided the little piece of rubber would fall back to the bottom of the hose until the next time and start all over again. It took a while to find it but after I changed the hose I had no more trouble. Check pressure and flow rate all through the fuel hoses. Let us know what you find.
Russell
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Rambozo
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by Rambozo »

Next time it does it, try removing the fuel cap. If you get a big whoosh of vacuum, your cap vent is clogged. The bike should also run right with the cap off. Soak it in Seafoam overnight and shake it to clean it out.
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GoldWingrGreg
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

Often, the PGM-FI system will store a DTC (digital trouble code). Like a check engine light on a car. The next time it starts to run bad, pull over, keep the engine running, come to a stop in N, and lower the side stand, and count the FI (fault indicator light) light flashes . You'll probably see long and short flashes. If you miss count, don't worry, the sequence will start again. Be sure to wright them down, and report back.

Long flash = 10
Short flash = 1

So 2 longs and 5 shorts = 25
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TYPBMEDIC
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by TYPBMEDIC »

Charlie1Horse wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 8:03 pm I had a problem something like what you describe with a 1988 Dodge Dakota pickup truck with over 200,000 miles. It would run really good for a while and run ragged and quit. Wait for a few minutes and it would run well again for a while. When I finally found the problem, it turned out to be a bad fuel hose behind the throttle body injection. This current gasoline had deteriorated the inside layer of the fuel hose and actually 'chipped' off a piece of that inside layer. That piece of rubber would lay in the bottom of the hose for a while and then, I suppose, due to the pulsation of the fuel pump, would lift up and block the fuel inlet to the throttle body and would remain there as long as there was positive pressure in the hose. When the pressure resided the little piece of rubber would fall back to the bottom of the hose until the next time and start all over again. It took a while to find it but after I changed the hose I had no more trouble. Check pressure and flow rate all through the fuel hoses. Let us know what you find.
Russell
Thanks Charlie, I'll keep that in mind. The strange thing about this situation is that when it starts happening i can literally turn off the ignition for about 5 seconds then turn it back on and fire up and drive for anywhere from another 5 to 10 minutes before the sputtering kicks in. And I forgot to mention this in the original post but I was getting a Fault Indicator code of 25, so I'm still trying to decide what direction thats taking me in.
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TYPBMEDIC
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by TYPBMEDIC »

Rambozo wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:35 pm Next time it does it, try removing the fuel cap. If you get a big whoosh of vacuum, your cap vent is clogged. The bike should also run right with the cap off. Soak it in Seafoam overnight and shake it to clean it out.
Thanks Rambozo, I'll keep that in mind and may try driving with the cap off next time. ?? The strange thing about this situation is that when it starts happening i can literally turn off the ignition for about 5 seconds then turn it back on and fire up and drive for anywhere from another 5 to 10 minutes before the sputtering kicks in. And I forgot to mention this in the original post but I was getting a Fault Indicator code of 25, so I'm still trying to decide what direction thats taking me in.
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TYPBMEDIC
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by TYPBMEDIC »

GoldWingrGreg wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2024 2:17 pm Often, the PGM-FI system will store a DTC (digital trouble code). Like a check engine light on a car. The next time it starts to run bad, pull over, keep the engine running, come to a stop in N, and lower the side stand, and count the FI (fault indicator light) light flashes . You'll probably see long and short flashes. If you miss count, don't worry, the sequence will start again. Be sure to wright them down, and report back.

Long flash = 10
Short flash = 1

So 2 longs and 5 shorts = 25
Thanks Greg, I actually did forget to mention in the original post that I was getting a Fault Indicator code of 25, so I'm still trying to decide what direction thats taking me in. The strange thing about this situation is that when it starts happening i can literally turn off the ignition for about 5 seconds then turn it back on and fire up and drive for anywhere from another 5 to 10 minutes before the sputtering kicks in.
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kwthom
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by kwthom »

25 is a right-side knock sensor error. Since it seems to be erratic, it's possible that it's a loose sensor connector.

You're gonna need a manual to dig in to it and hunt down the problem.
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MikeB
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by MikeB »

There seems to have been a rash of 25 code errors over the last few years and about 99% of the errors have been found to be caused by a faulty PGM-FI module (ECM).
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GoldWingrGreg
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

TYPBMEDIC wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:09 am
Thanks Greg, I actually did forget to mention in the original post that I was getting a Fault Indicator code of 25, so I'm still trying to decide what direction thats taking me in. The strange thing about this situation is that when it starts happening i can literally turn off the ignition for about 5 seconds then turn it back on and fire up and drive for anywhere from another 5 to 10 minutes before the sputtering kicks in.
In the electrical world, cycling the key often makes symtoms go away only to return.

DTC code 25 represents the right knock sensor circute. The circute consists of, related wiring, a knock sensor, and the ECM. In the professional world, since ECM are expensive, most owners want diagnosis in hopes of narrowing it down to a likely ECM issue. In the DIY world, many are more into replacing parts until something changes.
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TYPBMEDIC
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by TYPBMEDIC »

Thank you Gregg, ... and yes, i know that cycling the key does NOT fix the issue, I did that so I could make it home!! And yes I am in the DIY world, thus i have fixed several potential issues that may have been related to it from the beginning, and all of which needed to be done on this bike anyway, ie.. I did a flush of the coolant system, in case, as some have said, it could be a coolant issue because there may be air in the system and thus needs "burping". And that DID fix a possible related issue because the first few times i got stuck out on the road with it running so rough i had to pull over,... it had over heated, so we thought that was the problem. It was not! So I went on to the next potential, i replaced all the plugs with good ones,...nope, Then i went on to the next potential,... and replaced the thermostat. ...nope. The only other things to do, and this is from several other people, is to replace a few other relatively inexpensive parts, "for the helluv it". LOL I ordered new knock sensors, and I know that is a long shot, I have them now but have not put them in. I also ordered an Ignition coil/wiring ... because it was relatively cheap and several said it could be that, ... I have not replaced that yet, because, ... quite frankly, I'm think I will just have to go right to the ECM!! Sooo... that's where I'm at, until I can find a relatively inexpensive ECM,....I'm grounded for this riding season ...so far! ..And I AM NOT taking this lightly! AAAAARGH!! And i have to say, i am shocked that I have not found ANY other GW riders over the last couple months that have had the same exact symptoms as I am having! Thanks again for your response. I hope others read this! -Eugene
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Rambozo
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by Rambozo »

If you go back years instead of months you will see this issue comes up from time to time. The standard test is to swap the left and right knock sensors. If the code moves with the sensor, you need new sensors. If the code stays on the same side, you check the wiring. If the wiring is ok, time for a new ECU.
You can also test the sensors with a scope by tapping on them with a wrench.
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TYPBMEDIC
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Re: NEED HELP/IDEAS

Post by TYPBMEDIC »

So a knock sensor (if bad) can actually make the cycle run rough after 30 minutes, and then reset by turning the ignition off and then back on, and run for another 5 minutes or so? Well, I have a couple new knock sensors, so, i'll try replacing them. Thank you. - Eugene


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