Manual failure of reverse

[sly-fox54]

I have a 2016 comfort, nav, abs model. The reverse quit working and took to local shop where mechanic preformed diagnostic and ruled out any electrical problems. Determined mechanical problems with actuator claims only way to repair issue is to pull motor and transmission resulting in twenty plus hours of labor thus costing almost what the bike is worth. Bike only 59,000 miles. Any suggestions or clues welcomed!

[Techdude2000]

The only reason the motor would have to be pulled is if something inside broke or came loose. The actuator and cables can be replaced without all that trouble. Does this mechanic have a copy of the correct Honda Service manual for your model year? I have never heard of anything breaking in the reverse system other than the reverse idler gear getting broken when an inexperienced person changed the starter incorrectly and broke the gear.

[GoldWingrGreg]

Is this a trike ??? Was the starter replaced ??? With the engine running, and when reverse is turned on, and the starter button pushed, can you hear the starter spin ???

[sly-fox54]

It is not a trike and the starter has not been replaced. As for hearing the starter when placed in reverse I can’t say. Hopefully the mechanic that did the diagnostic has the appropriate manual as he’s at a Honda certified shop.

[Techdude2000]

It is not a trike and the starter has not been replaced. As for hearing the starter when placed in reverse I can’t say. Hopefully the mechanic that did the diagnostic has the appropriate manual as he’s at a Honda certified shop.

Ok, I’m wondering what he thinks is broken. If he pulls the engine, it’s going to be expensive. I would get a second opinion. What are the exact symptoms when you try reverse?

[sly-fox54]

I backed out of my garage using the reverse as always. Traveled 12 miles to the YMCA and put bike in neutral pushed reverse button in and hit the starter button and I heard aloud click the reverse light on the dash blinked and then stayed on. I shutdown the engine and then restarted. Neutral light on dash was lit and again pushed reverse button, hit starter button and same thing happened. After that I turned off the bike and didn’t try anymore as I was afraid that it might lock in reverse and not be able to move bike at all. I’m still able to ride the bike but I’m a little short of stature so I miss the reverse terribly. Rest of bike in great shape and have added a great deal of accessories to make it a great ride.

[Techdude2000]

I backed out of my garage using the reverse as always. Traveled 12 miles to the YMCA and put bike in neutral pushed reverse button in and hit the starter button and I heard aloud click the reverse light on the dash blinked and then stayed on. I shutdown the engine and then restarted. Neutral light on dash was lit and again pushed reverse button, hit starter button and same thing happened. After that I turned off the bike and didn’t try anymore as I was afraid that it might lock in reverse and not be able to move bike at all. I’m still able to ride the bike but I’m a little short of stature so I miss the reverse terribly. Rest of bike in great shape and have added a great deal of accessories to make it a great ride.

So, the last time you hit the reverse, did you get a solid R light on the dash before you hit the starter button to back up? If you engage the reverse button now, do you get a solid R light on the dash or does it blink?

[sly-fox54]

When I engage the R button the light blinks on the dash and stays blinking even after I disengage the R button. I turn off the key and stop the engine then restart the bike and the R light is off until I push the R button again.

[Techdude2000]

When I engage the R button the light blinks on the dash and stays blinking even after I disengage the R button. I turn off the key and stop the engine then restart the bike and the R light is off until I push the R button again.

This sounds like your reverse actuator has failed or locked up. It can be changed without removing the engine. It’s mounted up front behind the black upper cowl on the top of the engine and the cables run down the right side to the rear of the engine. No reason to pull the engine to change it or adjust it.

[sly-fox54]

I believe that you are correct in your analysis. I have a factory manual and I‘ve been studying it and I think I could tackle it myself. So I found an actuator for around $225 so that might not be so expensive to repair. Have you ever replaced one before?

[GoldWingrGreg]

If I recall, here at JustWings, everytime we've gone to replace the reverse actuator, we think we can replace it by working from the front, only to relize that removing the shelter, fuel tank, and air box is much faster. Be sure to have 4 of part #1. As a side note, not that your actuator is not bad, but because its a 2016, a bad actuator being that young would be unusual. Before ever starting such repair, and because some made in Japan have frozen turn-buckels, be sure your cable turn buckeles are not seized. Sometime a cable need replaced too, and is easiest to replace it with a new actuator. https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/a/hon ... t-actuator

[Techdude2000]

I believe that you are correct in your analysis. I have a factory manual and I‘ve been studying it and I think I could tackle it myself. So I found an actuator for around $225 so that might not be so expensive to repair. Have you ever replaced one before?

Ok, yes, and I can’t say it was fun, but it’s not hard as long as you take lots of pics so you have a reference to get everything back where it should be during reassembly. Before we jump into all of that. You should perform the tests in the service manual that will help narrow down the culprit, at one point it runs the actuator motor with your battery and jumper wires. It’s not hard to do, just follow the steps carefully. If it tests bad, then you will need to remove the shelter and air box along with raising the gas tank up in the front enough to reach the air box rear hoses. By the way, if you end up needing it, you can get it for less at Mrcycles, $149. I agree with Greg, check the condition of the cable adjusters, they need to be functional.

[sly-fox54]

Thanks tech dude and Greg for all your help with technical and pricing information. I’ll do the diagnostics as per manual and the service tech locally said the cables and actuator needed to be replaced as well so I’m pretty sure cables and actuator have failed. Yes whether the cables are bad or not I will replace them since I’m in that deep. So wish me luck!!!

[Techdude2000]

Thanks tech dude and Greg for all your help with technical and pricing information. I’ll do the diagnostics as per manual and the service tech locally said the cables and actuator needed to be replaced as well so I’m pretty sure cables and actuator have failed. Yes whether the cables are bad or not I will replace them since I’m in that deep. So wish me luck!!!

Make sure that if the actuator tests bad and you order the cables and it, double check the cables for the correct part numbers and match them up to the original ones on the actuator before disconnecting them. I disconnected the cables at the rear of the engine and left them connected to the actuator until I pulled it off from the front. Then I matched each cable to its replacement and made a note of how many threads were showing at the actuator mount for each cable then made sure the new one was mounted exactly like the old one. Let us know how your testing goes, there’s a few more tips about getting the cables rigged in the rear mechanics if the time comes.

[sly-fox54]

Thanks so much for your tips and help. I am still studying the testing scenarios and seeing what all needs to come off just to get to the actuator. I’m scheduled to leave for Alaska at the end of the month so I’m not sure I’ll get to it before I leave. However, after I get back I’ll have all winter to tear into it but I’d really like to get it done asap! I pretty well ride here all winter crazy as I am!!

[sly-fox54]

Finally got around to checking the cables related to my reverse failure. Discovered the R cable broken just ahead of the rear engine mount. Decided to replace both cables and the actuator. Tore the bike down its skivvies. Removed the old cables and noted the R cable was the broken one on which attaches to the bottom of the rear shift mechanism. Anyway removed other cable and removed the actuator. Installed the actuator. Checked the part number of each cable and placed the R cable in the same place as it was on old actuator. Then attached end of cable to rear shift mechanism. Then attached N cable to actuator then to rear mechanism . This is when I discovered the N cable was too short. Does this mean the cables were placed in the wrong bags from the factory? Of course there is no number on the cables so no way to check new against old. Is there any other tricks tips in getting this thing back together? Also is there any other way to check if it works correctly before I place this thing back together? Any and alll help is greatly appreciated!!!

[GoldWingrGreg]

Once the cables are out of their packages, I'm not able to tell the cables apart. Let's cover some bacic routing info. The reverse cable, 'R', is the one that attaches to the lower position at the back of the engine. It attaches to the front position at the actuator. The nuetral cable, 'N', attaches to the upper position at the back of the motor and at the rear for the actuator. From the rear moving forward, they then go behind the rear brake resevior's master cylineders braket with the R cable at the bottom and the N at the top. They then route on top of all harnesses and fuel hoses as the route forward to the actuator. In the Service Manual is distance spec where they mount at the actuator.

Thing that might make one cable appear short. Be sure their cable braket at the back of the engine lays inword. With the braket off, there is a 'N' and 'R' stamped on the braket. The N for the nuetral cable has to be in the upper position. With the cables' barrel nuts in there shortest position, and prior to bolting the braket in place, I away attach their barrels into their appropriate holes into the reverse drum at the back of the engine, and then position the N cable into the holder first, and only then the R cable. Once the cables are all hooked up, I then install and torque the bracket, with Hondalock #2, to 108 in/lbs.

Once the cables are installed, turn the key on, be in N, and turn REV on to see if the cables rotate the reverse drum. Of coarse the next thing to do is to adjust the cables.

Although sometimes we can count on a parts fishe to show us correct stuff, sometimes we cannot.
In the pix, the cable routing up front is correct, but at the rear it needs to be as the blue line show. It needs to be on top at the rear.

[sly-fox54]

I followed your suggestions as far as attaching the cables on the back of the engine which worked better however one cable seems again too short. I wondered when you activate the actuator which way does it rotate clockwise or counter clockwise? The n cable hooked up somewhat easily but the R cable seems too short. Any other tips that might help with this situation? Thanks for all your help!!!!

[Techdude2000]

I followed your suggestions as far as attaching the cables on the back of the engine which worked better however one cable seems again too short. I wondered when you activate the actuator which way does it rotate clockwise or counter clockwise? The n cable hooked up somewhat easily but the R cable seems too short. Any other tips that might help with this situation? Thanks for all your help!!!!

The cable ends are purple in this diagram if this helps. I believe the neutral cable is normally a little shorter than the reverse cable. Blue arrow is the neutral cable and the red arrow is the reverse cable.

[GoldWingrGreg]

I followed your suggestions as far as attaching the cables on the back of the engine which worked better however one cable seems again too short. I wondered when you activate the actuator which way does it rotate clockwise or counter clockwise? The n cable hooked up somewhat easily but the R cable seems too short. Any other tips that might help with this situation? Thanks for all your help!!!!

Could your cables be switched ??? I just compared a set of new cables. As Rob says, the N cable is a little shorter. It's best seen in the cable outer sheithing. For example, from the rear turnbuckel to the actuator, the sheithing there is about 1" shorter (from chrome end to chrome end). The sheithing from the turnbuckel to the bend-end is about 1/2" longer (from chrome end to chrome end). Also, at least on my set, the N cable has white print on its sheithing, and the R cable has none. As with most everything on a 5th gen, routing of those cables is critical. Be sure they are routed as I described above.

For rotation, when looking from the rear, and looking forward, when the REV switch is pushed on, the R cable is pulled which rotates the reverse drum CCW. When the REV switch is released, the N cable is pulled on making the reverse drum rotate CW.

[sly-fox54]

Oh how happy I am tonight!! A great big thank you, thank you to Goldwing Greg and Techdude for your outstanding willingness to help out a fellow Wing rider fix the mess he created by not knowing not to leave the Wing in reverse when he parked!! Anyway I am greatly indebted to you both for your help and tips that enabled me to repair my manual reverse failure! While the task was very daunting you all came through with all your help and I am so so very grateful. After totally tearing the Wing down and finally getting everything put back together correctly the Wing started right up and when putting it in

neutral and pushing the reverse button the dash light came on and when engaging the starter button it actually moved backwards as it’s supposed to. So again a million thanks to you two and maybe if I get to Zephyr Hills I’ll stop by for visit!! So keep on riding and be safe out there!!!! Sly-fox54

[Techdude2000]

Oh how happy I am tonight!! A great big thank you, thank you to Goldwing Greg and Techdude for your outstanding willingness to help out a fellow Wing rider fix the mess he created by not knowing not to leave the Wing in reverse when he parked!! Anyway I am greatly indebted to you both for your help and tips that enabled me to repair my manual reverse failure! While the task was very daunting you all came through with all your help and I am so so very grateful. After totally tearing the Wing down and finally getting everything put back together correctly the Wing started right up and when putting it in

neutral and pushing the reverse button the dash light came on and when engaging the starter button it actually moved backwards as it’s supposed to. So again a million thanks to you two and maybe if I get to Zephyr Hills I’ll stop by for visit!! So keep on riding and be safe out there!!!! Sly-fox54

Glad I could help!

[GoldWingrGreg]

Oh how happy I am tonight!! A great big thank you, thank you to Goldwing Greg and Techdude for your outstanding willingness to help out a fellow Wing rider fix the mess he created by not knowing not to leave the Wing in reverse when he parked!!

Glad I could help too !!!