Starter won't stop with key off

[Piddler]

Hello All
It's been a while, I have now a 2002, GL1800
I was on a jobsite where I started the bike to move it before I rode home and when I turned the key off, the starter kept spinning. I was an hour from home so I thought I'd let it idle and disconnect the battery when I got home. Smoke started coming out from under the seat so I disconnected the battery and hauled it home in my trailer I had on-site. I haven't opened it up to see if any wires were melted yet. I did stop by the local dealer and was told they couldn't look at for at least a month.
Could it be the solenoid as the mechanic suggested?
Greg aka "Piddler" on the Roof

[Charlie1Horse]

I would try tapping the solenoids, one at a time, to see if it stops and then replacing that one if that works. Check both sides of both solenoids with a test light or volt meter to see if power is at both terminals. If so, that solenoid should be replaced.
Russell

[GoldWingrGreg]

When you turned the key off, did the engine continue running, or did the engine turn off, but the starter kept running ???

[Piddler]

The engine would turn off but starter kept going. I will try those voltage and tapping tests.
Thank You

[Techdude2000]

The engine would turn off but starter kept going. I will try those voltage and tapping tests.
Thank You

You probably burned up the starter motor. The A starter relay welded its contacts so it and the B relay will need to be replaced along with the starter. Go with OEM, aftermarket will give you nothing but grief. I hope you didn’t engage reverse to try to stop it. The best thing to do when this happens is to pull the side cover off and disconnect the battery’s negative cable as fast as you can.

[Piddler]

As soon as I saw a small amount of smoke coming from under the seat where the solenoids are, I popped the cover and disconnected the battery, The starter motor was still running but stopped when it lost power. Fingers crossed for the motor.

[Techdude2000]

As soon as I saw a small amount of smoke coming from under the seat where the solenoids are, I popped the cover and disconnected the battery, The starter motor was still running but stopped when it lost power. Fingers crossed for the motor.

It might be OK if it was free wheeling most of the time and not actually spinning the engine. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

[agedbikeman]

This is common on the 1500's, mine's done it a few times, it's the first solenoid from the battery on the 1500, but I don't know about the 1800.
It seems to be because the wings have reverse, which uses the same solenoid to start and reverse, these solenoids were never meant to engage for that long like reversing, so they overheat, take your old one apart, you'll see it's the worse for wear.
On my 1500, I've got an LED on the dash that comes on when the starter motor is turning, If it stays on you know to take immediate action without wondering what's happening, see my post on this gadget.
It happened to me again last week, immediately pulled the side cover, clumped the solenoid and it stopped, I change my solenoid every 2 years so now it rarely happens.

Alex

[GoldWingrGreg]

When replacing the starter and it's relays, be sure to only use OEM ones. If the starter is not seated by hand, often the reverse idler gear gets broke. So be sure to only seat it by hand ... no pushing on it with a tool, and do not draw it in using its mount bolts.

An aftermarket starter's pins can shear and send metal throughout the engine.

[Charlie1Horse]

While the starter is still running, are the headlights on or off? If they are off try spraying electronics cleaner in the starter switch on the right handlebar and working it many times. If they are on it won't be the switch. My 1500 had that problem one day and when I stopped to meet up with friends I could hear it running. I flipped the start switch a few times and it started working right again. So, when I returned home, I sprayed cleaner in the switch and worked it and it has been good ever since.
Russell

[Techdude2000]

While the starter is still running, are the headlights on or off? If they are off try spraying electronics cleaner in the starter switch on the right handlebar and working it many times. If they are on it won't be the switch. My 1500 had that problem one day and when I stopped to meet up with friends I could hear it running. I flipped the start switch a few times and it started working right again. So, when I returned home, I sprayed cleaner in the switch and worked it and it has been good ever since.
Russell

On the 1800, if you turn off the key, the power to the starter button switch is removed. Even if the switch sticks, the key-off will kill the starter if the switch is the culprit. Since the OP’s starter still cranked the engine with the key off, this is a contact welded starter relay and not related to a sticking starter button switch.

[Piddler]

Thank you all
I still haven't opened it up to see. I've been inundated with work lately
Greg

[Piddler]

Hello all
I finally opened up the bike to examine the solenoid's. While they were exposed I put the charged up battery expecting the starter to kick on so I could tap on the solenoids to see if it stopped as someone suggested. The starter did not turn on, the headlights did indicating the ignition was on but no starter even when I pushed the starter button. I checked the kill switch, it is in the right position, I switched back and forth to make sure it was positioned right.
A little back story, When I bought this bike in Union City over a ear ago, some 20 miles away, I was driving home and needed to stop for gas. When I went to restart it, Nothing happened. I called the guy I bought it from and we tried to diagnose it over the phone. He decided to drive the 12 miles to help me. We opened her up and checked fuses, voltage etc. and determined it may be the solenoid. I figured if it was the solenoid, I should be able to push start it. That worked so I drove home and ordered an after market solenoid. I just ordered an OEM solenoid that should be here on the 25th. I didn't try push starting it since it was partially disassembled and my drive way has a slope to it which could be problematic if it isn't running. I ordered the one with the clear or tan plug on it.

[Rambozo]

Aftermarket solenoids are not known for their longevity or proper wiring. You may have to do some tweaking to make it function. I always advise testing before just throwing parts at a problem. A quick check with a test light or meter will tell you what is and isn't functioning.

[Techdude2000]

Hello all
I finally opened up the bike to examine the solenoid's. While they were exposed I put the charged up battery expecting the starter to kick on so I could tap on the solenoids to see if it stopped as someone suggested. The starter did not turn on, the headlights did indicating the ignition was on but no starter even when I pushed the starter button. I checked the kill switch, it is in the right position, I switched back and forth to make sure it was positioned right.
A little back story, When I bought this bike in Union City over a ear ago, some 20 miles away, I was driving home and needed to stop for gas. When I went to restart it, Nothing happened. I called the guy I bought it from and we tried to diagnose it over the phone. He decided to drive the 12 miles to help me. We opened her up and checked fuses, voltage etc. and determined it may be the solenoid. I figured if it was the solenoid, I should be able to push start it. That worked so I drove home and ordered an after market solenoid. I just ordered an OEM solenoid that should be here on the 25th. I didn't try push starting it since it was partially disassembled and my drive way has a slope to it which could be problematic if it isn't running. I ordered the one with the clear or tan plug on it.

The A solenoid is the culprit. It’s the one toward the front of the bike. The factory solenoid would/will have a red two pin connector on it. The B solenoid can’t cause this problem because it gets its power from the A solenoid. If the B welds its contacts, you will only get a reverse failure.

[Piddler]

The A solenoid is the culprit. It’s the one toward the front of the bike. The factory solenoid would/will have a red two pin connector on it. The B solenoid can’t cause this problem because it gets its power from the A solenoid. If the B welds its contacts, you will only get a reverse failure.

Thanks but I missed this message and ordered the one that was most available with the clear connector. I have now ordered the A Solenoid after installing the B one witch of course didn't work. Good news is, I jumped a #10 wire to the solenoid and the bike started right up so I don't have to worry about the starter being burned up.
Thanks everyone
Greg

[Techdude2000]

The A solenoid is the culprit. It’s the one toward the front of the bike. The factory solenoid would/will have a red two pin connector on it. The B solenoid can’t cause this problem because it gets its power from the A solenoid. If the B welds its contacts, you will only get a reverse failure.

Thanks but I missed this message and ordered the one that was most available with the clear connector. I have now ordered the A Solenoid after installing the B one witch of course didn't work. Good news is, I jumped a #10 wire to the solenoid and the bike started right up so I don't have to worry about the starter being burned up.
Thanks everyone
Greg

You can use the same one for both parts, you just have to keep the connectors plugged into the correct bike side plugs. The connector color is the only difference in the two parts. Glad to hear the starter is still alive.

[Piddler]

Now I'm worried.
I just put the extra solenoid on as suggested. Hooked up the battery and tried to start it. Lights dimmed as usual but the starter didn't turn and smoke started coming out from behind. Couldn't see from where and I disconnected the battery to quickly track it down.

[Rambozo]

It's best not to let the magic smoke out. Time to check your work. Sounds like something got grounded.

[Piddler]

The new "A" or front solenoid came in so I put it on. Now both solenoids have been replaced. Same problem exists. Lights will dim when the start button is pressed, lights dim and I can hear a clicking by the solenoids but no smoke. No starter motor spin either. I'm reasonably sure I wired it the same way it came off but I'm beginning to think/hope, I may have done something wrong.
How can I check?
Greg

[Rambozo]

Are these OEM solenoids? Some of the aftermarket ones need wires swapped as they don't match the Honda wiring exactly.
There is a difference between lights dimming and turning off. It is normal for the headlights to turn off completely anytime the start button is depressed. However, if all the other lights on the bike dim but stay on when the start button is pressed, this is often due to a large voltage drop either from a low battery, bad power or ground connections, or a shorted starter or starter wiring.

Do you have the wiring diagram for your bike? It isn't hard to trace out the start circuit, but the reverse does make it more complicated than a typical bike.

[Piddler]

They are OEM Honda products. I have actual shop manual I can look at. I'll check it out.
Thanks
Greg

[Techdude2000]

Here’s a little help. The peppermint striped one is running to the starter.

[Piddler]

The wiring is correct. Is there any tests with a volt meter I can do to find the fault?
Greg

[Techdude2000]

The wiring is correct. Is there any tests with a volt meter I can do to find the fault?
Greg

Yes, take your voltmeter and probe the “RVS A” fuse with the key on, in neutral, and pushing the starter button switch. You should see full battery power on both sides of the fuse when the button is pushed and held. If you get full battery power on it, there’s a good chance your starter motor is dead. If you don’t get power on the fuse, do the same thing to the “RVS B” fuse. Do you get power on it with the button pushed and held?