Heated seats/grips update, still baffling


Information and questions on GL1800 Goldwings (2001-2017)
dtebh916
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by dtebh916 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:45 am



Update.

My heating problem has vanished for now. I have no clue why, but glad it started working again.

Possibly a intermittent connection at the heater control module?

Thanks in advance,
Ed



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mariomat59
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by mariomat59 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:12 pm

dear all,
on my GW 06 the heated grips work only for a few minutes and then nothing...for all day. This history repeats itself every time I use the bike...???

CruiseControl
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by CruiseControl » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:20 am

I THINK I've finally made some progress on determining what is causing my problem.

The upshot is that the left grip (connector 71 C) has an issue. I suspect that, in deference to the comment about abusing the left grip while setting the bike on the center stand, the problem was created when I installed bar backs. Because of the weight of the bar, I failed to recognize how much tension was being placed on the cables and wires during installation. I think that during installation I stretched the wires of the left grip enough for it not to make a good connection. On first inspection of continuity there was zero resistance (0 ohm) on the left grip. While I was trying to discover which grip was 71 C (left or right) I traced the wire, moving it as I traced it, I must have released the tension to create a better connection. A subsequent check of resistance was more than 0 ohm but not 0 resistance. Thus my evaluation that stretching the wire caused my problem.

For those who go through the troubleshooting that Wingadmin has shared above (BTW, all those instruction are in the maintenance manual), you might consider starting with the worst effort (removing the top shelter) and testing the continuity on your grips. Removing that top shelter is a pain. But since it seems the most likely problem for all heating issues is in the grips, you'll save a lot of reconstruction of your bike if you do that first. ****! Now I have to reinstall the left saddlebag, the truck bracket, etc. etc. What a pain! BTW, I recommend that if you're going to remove the top shelter, have a new air filter on hand so you can replace that while you're at it. I'll be ordering one to install before the Wing is put back together.

Other unusual findings... who knew that the backrest on the rear seat is heated? My gawd the number of screws that have to be taken out to check for continuity there! The upshot is: the troubleshooting steps SUCK as far as focusing on testing what is the most likely the problem! The Heater Control Unit or the Heater Relay and all the various tests performed on those??? How often are those the problem with the system? That's a lot of wasted testing if you ask me! Work backward through the troubleshooting instructions if you want to save some (A LOT OF) time! At least that's my experience!

CruiseControl
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by CruiseControl » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:41 am

CruiseControl wrote:I suspect that, in deference to the comment about abusing the left grip while setting the bike on the center stand, the problem was created when I installed bar backs.
I did some more continuity testing hoping to discover where I had stretched the wire. I discovered it was the grip itself. I wrapped some tape around it and was able to get a solid connection. This probably explains why heat was intermittent... it worked if I happened to be holding the grip just right. I tried to test my temporary repair. But with my bike in so many pieces and in a not well ventilated garage I wasn't able to start the engine to test it. I would still like someone to tell me if the engine has to be running at a certain minimum RPM for the system to work. Does anybody have an answer to that question?

As far as getting the replacement part... the parts guy at my regular dealer didn't seem to understand that I needed an original part to complete the circuit. Maybe an aftermarket could be jerry-rigged? Doesn't matter. I found the original from Partzilla. hondapartshouse also had it. Prices are different even though they apparently source from the same place. But the prices for shipping indicated buy from the higher-priced online store to save money.

P.S. Additional troubleshooting tips. If your grip seems to have bubbled, it's probably the grip. You could try holding the grip several different ways while you ride. I watched my ohm meter while I tried to create continuity by wrapping with tape. It wasn't as simple as just wrapping... I had to wrap it just right to get the connection. Alternatively, start your troubleshooting by taking off the top shelter to get access to the grip connectors. If that happens to be the problem, there's a lot fewer screws to deal with than if you troubleshoot by instructions provided in the manual. YMMV

CruiseControl
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by CruiseControl » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:17 am

CruiseControl wrote:I would still like someone to tell me if the engine has to be running at a certain minimum RPM for the system to work. Does anybody have an answer to that question?
New part arrived. I tested it. The answer to the above is Yes. Since my instrument cluster was not connected, I don't know what the minimum RPM is. But I was revving faster than idle.

I was just sure I ordered the right grip, and by that I mean correct grip. As it turned out I ordered the right grip, and by that I mean the wrong grip. Damn it! I've decided to replace them both. So I have reordered the right grip, and by that I mean the original planned correct LEFT grip. What screwed me up is that HondaPartsHouse has the wrong part number for the left grip. BTW, Online Chat at Partzilla is quick and helpful.

For those who might be ordering OEM parts, the correct numbers for a 2007 GL1800 (and I'm sure many other years): Right=53166-MCA-305. Left=53166-MCA-315. These are superseded part numbers from Partzilla.

Oh! And! I did that air filter replacement that I promised I'd do. Glad I did because it needed it! In the process I concluded with regard to the argument that the comfort heating system was designed by lawyers not engineers... by the time you replace the damned air filter, you'll wonder if anyone really designed the motorcycle for anything other than riding when it has no mechanical problems.

Fastfreddy
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by Fastfreddy » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:49 am

Love the flow chart, I have a similar problem with the hand grips not heating up. The passenger seat and backrest work fine and the drivers seat also works fine. Its only the hand grips that aren't working. Will try to solve using the flow chart as a guide on what to check. Probably just a bad connection at handgrips. Don't usually ride when weather is below 40/45 % but would to get them working anyway.My trike is also a 2008 year model. Thanks for posting flow chart.

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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by davepsax » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:18 pm

The schematic and troubleshooting info is quite helpful but does anyone know what the signal levels should be at the various circuit connections/pins. The trike bodywork on my 06 makes it impossible to get to the Heater Control Unit. Started through the troubleshooting and found that my relay does not activate (swapped it with the rear light relay) so I temporarily bypassed it to provide voltage to the yellow/red wire at the relay socket and there was no change heat anywhere with the engine running or not. I had already replaced a broken rear heater control switch. Does anyone have voltage levels for the various locations I could test for at accessible connectors?
In the meantime I will eliminate anything else I can measure with a ohmmeter.
Thanks
Davepsax

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TerryRuth
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by TerryRuth » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:32 pm

thrasherg wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:58 pm
Wow, all that just for a warm bum and hands!! :lol:

Gary
ON Step 8 the whole block of 6 fuses drops out the bottom using a small flat screwdriver to push in green tabs
IF you are repLacacing OEM GRIPS (heated ) the throttle side is MOULDED to the throttle tube that the throttle cables are attached to .. vigorous working will damage throttle tube cable holders >>>You HAVE to get heated grip with cable holders Show Chrome # 17-382 $168oo CDN @ Fortnine

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TerryRuth
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by TerryRuth » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:12 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:21 pm
Here are the circuits you're looking for - this is from a 2008, as I don't have a 2006 manual, but they *should* be the same.

Heater Circuit.png
Controller Circuit.png

It could be the pink wire coming from the ECM that enables the heater control unit - if the ECM doesn't tell the heater control unit to come on, it won't come on.

I'll post the diagnostic procedures in a moment.
BOTH Thermistors test 0
I don't know where it is located, I don't want to have to remove the whole seat vinyl to find it, does anyone have any pics of where the rear thermistor is located on a 2006 Goldwing seat? How can I remove and replace the cover without damaging everything?
ALSO how do I post a new thread

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TerryRuth
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by TerryRuth » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:04 pm

thrasherg wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:58 pm
Wow, all that just for a warm bum and hands!! :lol:

Gary
#1 heat control ii behind 2 solonoids blue covers and black cover they just pull straight out

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TerryRuth
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by TerryRuth » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:52 pm

8. Remove the green relay block from the relay box and remove the HEATER relay from the relay block.
Step 8.png

9. Connect the Yellow/red and Red/white wire terminals of the HEATER relay connector with a jumper wire.
Step 9.png

10.Turn the ignition switch to ON.
Measure the voltage between the following terminals (+) and ground (–).
CONNECTION:
Front seat heater: White/black (+) – ground (–)
Rear seat heater: Red/white (+) – ground (–)
Grip heater: White/green (+) – ground (–)
There should be battery voltage.
• If there is no voltage, GO TO STEP 11.
• If there is battery voltage, check the HEATER relay (page 21-76 of Service Manual).
If the relay is OK, GO


Well I am NOT A MECHANIC but this doesn't make sense to me. A relay has low power in to ground , that turns on the relay..then you have hi power to your load the test SAYS there should be battery voltage to 3 pins AND the white green wire to grips ???? is NOWHERE YELLOW/RED is ground- I'm 90% sure

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TerryRuth
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by TerryRuth » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:28 pm

the pink wire on my diagram says it goes to the relay box I hear ECM AND ECU used whats the correct and WHERE is it

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TerryRuth
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by TerryRuth » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:35 pm

or I guesss where DOES the pink wire go my diagram MAY be incorrect from HCU it's PINK and labeled on the relay it's marked RED IS it like jumper between grips blu/green at both ends of grips yellow/green to join??

Rudynewtech
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by Rudynewtech » Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:04 pm

Hi, have you figured it out yet?
(By the way my 07 isn't functioning either and I have not begun the diag.process yet..
ok so reading through your description i see where you've gone off course..
The black/white wire from the relay to the hcu..
That leg of the circuit is the ground leg of the relay pull in coil. Hold that thought!
The 5 amp fuse supplies power to the hot side of the pull in coil (and to the brain circuit of the hcu), and the black wire circuit must be pulled to ground by the HCU to complete the electrical circuit. Only then will the relay allow power to the wire which feeds power to ALL the heater circuits. Grips seats etc...
So with that statement in mind..if you are checking the black white wire and getting v+ (13)
And this is With any of the Heaters in the "On" position, your hcu is not pulling that circuit to ground thus not energizing the relay that supplies power to all the heater grid elements.
Recap.. circuit on... w/any unit calling for heat!
Black white wire should read < .5V (and S/Be "0" v actual).
Now turn ALL HEAT CONTROLS OFF and yes there should be V+ on that B/W wire right up to the HCU.
To demonstrate touch the pos terminal of the battery with one finger on your left hand while holding the pos lead of the voltmeter in your right hand. (W/Neg lead of meter grounded to frame or bat.-) 12V right? You are an open circuit just like the black white wire. Until its grounded you will measure v+ anywhere on it.

FROM THE DIAGRAM..on the post. I see that the system controls everything on the ground sides.. look at the power feed yellow red and it goes from the power supply relay to all the heat grids.
Then from the grids (ground side) back to the hcu.. the hcu now controls the electric current via the ground side of the circuits
And current is regulated by the hcu based on the heat setting controls 1,2,3,4,5,max (which are variable resistor inputs into the hcu) and feed back from the thermisters to allow the hcu brain to keep you from having too hot buns... note the grips are not feedback regulated, no thermisteres, as in most cases riding gloves would prevent heat injury to the hands
From my reading I'd say check the connections at the pins on the hcu.. a lot of guys,are saying that's the source of the malfunction.. also from the connector at the hcu ohm test all the heater grid circuits, obviously with the hcu disconnected...
While I can not at this time give u exact ohm specs comparative values between the grips left and right side and the seats front and rear will show any that are misbehaving.
.......

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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by Aussieemu » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:13 pm

Hi, new to this thread on heated seats and grips, I've been reading it with much interest. Mainly because my 2008 has decided to not heat either the grips or seats. I have followed the diagnostic pages in this great thread and come up with a few observations and one problem I need help with. Started with following the diagnostic steps which are fantastic, finally found the HCU plug had dirt and crud in it causing some bad connections. All good!, but no. Also there was a question about the pink wire from the ECU, this supplies a small voltage to the HCU when the engine is running nom 1.5 ~1.75 volts, ignition on but engine not running = no voltage to the HCU. I also note that when accelerating average to hard the supply voltage on the pink wire drops to zero, cruising, easy acceleration and idle the HCU is ok? why? Anyway, I now have heated seats but as soon as I turn the grips on the HCU shuts down, either with the grips alone or with one or both seats on. It appears the HCU resets to working" once the ignition has been turned off, then back on. I doesn't restart without this. Cold, both seats draw about 6 amps each and drop as the seats warm up, thermisitors are working. I have continuity through the grips, but I am unsure what resistance I should be seeing, its not a dead short. its similar to the seats. Any help or thoughts on what could be the issue? I'm unsure if the issue is with the HCU or the grips, any help, thoughts at all would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers Emu.

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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by huggiebear » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:02 am

I had a similar problem, when turned on, the heater will work for about 10 to 15 minutes then it will shutdown on by itself, if I'll stop for gas or shut off the engine, the heater started to work again for another 10 to 15 minutes.
My problem was my heater booster, after I removed it I had no problem.
Not sure if that was the problem or a coincidence.

Camer
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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by Camer » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:28 am

I've also noticed that my grips turn off if I go above 70 mph. Once the bike is turned of it resets and is fine till 70 quite consistently (every time for the last two days of riding) has anyone noticed this and is there a way to stop it
Thanks

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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by drlngus » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:26 pm

I followed all the steps everything checks out but still no heat to the grips the resistance value of the grips are 2.5 & 2.6 ohms. All the voltages are there the seats work fine the only thing is I don’t have an extra HCU or ecm to swap to check any other ideas?? Thanks in advance

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Re: Heated seats/grips update, still baffling

Post by paulr » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:19 am

I have just bought a 2007 GL1800 Trike (Lehman Monarch2) and the grips/seat stopped working on that too...(it is being returned to the dealer to sort out..along with some other issues) it was cold and it's the heated grips i really miss..On my 1500 "Wing" i fitted some myself..quite easy to fit,worked perfect just three positions low/off/high and the switch was joined to the left grip..the grips were also 6" long where most others are a lot shorter..I shall be buying some again to fit to the 1800 if and when needed.....here they are
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/22mm-7-8-12V ... 3429727843



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