Dyna DS1-3 Help!


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AZnative
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Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by AZnative » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:33 pm



I've been a member for a couple years since I bought my 1978 GL1000 and have been pretty much lurking until now.

Ok. So I decided to order the Dyna ignition for my 1978 GL1000. I did a lot of research before I decided to order one and give it a try on my GL. I installed the Dyna according to all of the instructions that I got from Dyna with the kit including any and all info I could find. I paid particular attention to the Dyna static timing procedure that I found on the Naked Goldwings site. https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5720 and information from Randaak's site.

As far as I am concerned I was able to adjust the timing as explained in detail on the NGW post. I triple and quadrupled checked the timing for both using a test light connected properly according to the instructions and the static timing setting for both 3&4 (I adjusted them first using the F 2 mark) and then set the timing to be dead on for cylinders 1&2 using the F 1 mark. Reconnecting the test light to the appropriate lead each time I went back to verify my static timing for both pairs of cylinders. This is what is happening so far:

1. The bike starts a little harder than before the switch to the Dyna ignition.
2. The bike idles at about 600 rpm from the approximate 1000 rpm it was running before.
3. The motor stumbles and makes clunking noises and tends to backfire some and sometimes dies out needing a restart.
4. I removed the Dyna assembly and reinstalled the original points system and the bike runs great. No clacking/clunking and no sputtering. ( I know what you're thinking, stick to the original points system if it was running good...........problem solved, right?)

Today I reinstalled the Dyna system thinking I may have missed something before or the static timing may have been off a bit and got everything set according to the F1 and F2 markings with the test light connected to the appropriate lead and the bike ran poorly again as it did when I originally installed the Dyna ignition. So, what I am trying to figure out is if I have a defective Dyna ignition, or am I overlooking something else? From what I can tell the original coils have been replaced with aftermarket coils that look like Dyna coils but are not marked as such. (Photo attached)Furthermore, I cannot find a ballast resistor so I am assuming it was removed when the aftermarket coils were installed but the previous owner retained the original point/condenser ignition assembly.

The bike runs fine with the stock points system but I thought I would upgrade to a Dyna ignition. Maybe that was a mistake. Any suggestions I might consider before I give up on this modification?
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dingdong
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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by dingdong » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:03 pm

I experienced a similar problem with mine and others have reported the same problems and solution. This was 10 years ago so I figured Dyna had corrected the problem???

The round plate holding the 2 modules is the ground point for the unit. The plate on mine and others was a tad too thin. So when the two mounting screws are tightened down they don't make a tight contact to form a ground at the lip of the points housing. I/we used star washers under the screws to correct this. This may or may not be your problem but maybe it is ???
Tom

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AZnative
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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by AZnative » Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:10 pm

So are the star washers used in place of the existing flat washers or as an add on to the existing flat washers?

In the pic of the Dyna unit you can see the existing flat washers under the retaining screws.

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Fred Camper
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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by Fred Camper » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:28 pm

With the dyna ignition and the Dyna Coils there is no need for the ballast resister hence it was removed. The dyna 3 is an older mid 1980's unit and may fail soon. Had to replace mine two years back due to dropping a two cylinders when it heated up. Hope you get her back on the road soon.

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by AZnative » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:45 pm

If you mean the coils being from the mid 80’s then I would agree with you but the Dyna S that I installed and having issues with is a brand new unit. I followed the instructions for checking if the plugs are firing and all four are. Since I had the plugs out I regapped them with no improvement. I then went back to re-installing the point ignition and it’s back to running smoothly again. Next up is contacting Dyna for some possible solutions.

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Fred Camper
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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by Fred Camper » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:55 pm

You are correct, only the dyna III is old, the dyna s is newer and should be under warranty so dyna should help you out. Plug gaps can be larger but it should work fine with the factory gap as well so do contact dyna for your next steps. Your Coils look modern so I doubt they are aged. Coils work until cracked due to age unless they are defective. Two cylinders go down with a bad coil.

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by Maz » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:52 am

Check and double check all of the New connections (12v and ground). It sounds like the Dyna S is not getting full battery voltage.
Just a thought.

Oh.. and make sure the condensers (used with points) are disconnected when using Dyna S.
Maz
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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by Fred Camper » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:57 am

I had my Dyna S hooked up to the ignition for power and I got a miss when the blinker was on. Just enough voltage drop to throw it off. I got the Dyna clean power from the battery using a relay and solved the issue. So clean 12v power is important, 11.5 volts may not work.

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by dingdong » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:09 am

I installed the star washers under the flat washers. Not sure if it makes any difference, just trying to insure a good ground contact with the Dyna mounting plate.
Tom

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AZnative
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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by AZnative » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:53 am

Fred Camper wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:57 am
I had my Dyna S hooked up to the ignition for power and I got a miss when the blinker was on. Just enough voltage drop to throw it off. I got the Dyna clean power from the battery using a relay and solved the issue. So clean 12v power is important, 11.5 volts may not work.
I will check the voltage. I connected the red power lead to feed the Dyna S to the positive terminal of the accessory block as seen in the photo in my original post which was one of the connection options for my ‘78 Goldwing.

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by pshaginaw » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:32 am

Two years ago I bought a Dyna unit to upgrade my '78 GL1000. I did, as you did, using the accessory block to provide the 12v power to the Dyna unit. Fussed with it on and off for about three days and could not get it to work properly. Upon troubleshooting everything I could think of, I decided to check my alternator output. That was the problem. My almost 40yr old original alternator was about to fail: the insulation on the stator coils was going bad. This meant that the accessory block was providing only 10.5v to the Dyna unit so it wouldn't fire. Fortunately, I was able to return the Dyna unit, get an upgraded alternator from Randakk, and go back to the points. At some time I may try the Dyna unit again, but right now, the bike runs great with the original ignition configuration. All that being said, I have a friend with a '75 GL1000 running a Dyna unit and she has over 100k on her bike; starts with no choke, idles at 1000rpm consistently, and has a comfortable powerband around 3000rpm. Who's to say what's best? These old bikes seem to each have an individual personality, and what works for one may not work for another. Just sayin!

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by Maz » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:53 am

Ideally, you need to prove the wires as close to the Dyna unit as possible, while it's all plugged in with ignition on. Any volt drop, due to a poor crimp or bad connection, may only show up while the circuit is under load.

Maz
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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by ekvh » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:01 pm

The fix for lower voltage right from Dyna is a fused connection right to the battery. It’s common to lose a bolt or more through the connectors through the switch. The description made me wonder if wires were crossed to plugs, but being points run it fine makes me think otherwise.

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by AZnative » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:12 pm

ekvh wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:01 pm
The fix for lower voltage right from Dyna is a fused connection right to the battery. It’s common to lose a bolt or more through the connectors through the switch. The description made me wonder if wires were crossed to plugs, but being points run it fine makes me think otherwise.
If I make a direct fused connection to the battery what acts as an on/off switch to cut power to the Dyna when the ignition is turned off and the bike not running?

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by AZnative » Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:15 pm

Maz wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:53 am
Ideally, you need to prove the wires as close to the Dyna unit as possible, while it's all plugged in with ignition on. Any volt drop, due to a poor crimp or bad connection, may only show up while the circuit is under load.

Maz
I may make up a new power lead with a better connector than what was supplied with the Dyna kit which seems to be a very light gauge wire and connector. This may not be the issue but making a new power lead is not a problem.

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by ekvh » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:58 pm

I was thinking of the older black box version, which I thought was the number in the heading.

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by dingdong » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:02 am

Did you find the problem yet?
Tom

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by kndw » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:38 am

The bad connections is probably where you should look, but I was wondering if you have accessory loads. I also have the Dyna S and the green Dyna coils (3 Ohm). Unless I made a mistake in the calculations, these use up 48 Watts. That is quite a lot considering the alternator output. If you use a 1 Ohm ballast resistor, this drops to 36 Watts. The spark may be less hot, but it might help if the charging system is pushed to the limits?

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by DenverWinger » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:14 pm

You have to remember, there is not constant current going thru those 3 ohms, only short pulses of voltage. That's what makes the spark..... The pulses averaged out would be nowhere near 48 watts.
They say 98% of all Hardleys ever made are still on the road..... The other 2% made it home. :lol:
(I stole this from somebody on another GW site...) :roll:

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by kndw » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:25 am

DenverWinger wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:14 pm
You have to remember, there is not constant current going thru those 3 ohms, only short pulses of voltage. That's what makes the spark..... The pulses averaged out would be nowhere near 48 watts.
Ah, of course. Thanks :)

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by AZnative » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:06 am

dingdong wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:02 am
Did you find the problem yet?
Not yet! The points are back in for now while I consider my next step. I may try a direct fused connection to the battery next as well as some voltage testing at the acc terminal while the bike is running. For now I'm servicing the rear wheel drive gear and get some new tires mounted while they are off. New pads on the discs already.

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by WingAdmin » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:58 am

DenverWinger wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:14 pm
You have to remember, there is not constant current going thru those 3 ohms, only short pulses of voltage. That's what makes the spark..... The pulses averaged out would be nowhere near 48 watts.
You can't really average watts like that - if it is a 3 ohm coil at 13.8v, it will draw 41.4 watts - but it will do so in very short bursts. But during those bursts, it is actually pulling 41 watts. Actually, that's a very simplistic view of it, it's actually far more complex with inductance coming into play, but the point is it is still drawing that current. The battery is able to provide these instantaneous high-current pulses, acting as a reservoir: It is filled slowly and constantly by the alternator, and in turn it allows these brief high-current squirts of energy to be drained from it. The energy used over time by the coils is easily replenished in a slow, steady manner by the alternator.

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by AZnative » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:28 pm

After a reply that was made about the Dyna S maybe not getting enough voltage and maybe tapping power directly from the battery I decided that would be a viable option. So today I installed a relay switch that switches on the juice directly from the battery through the relay to the Dyna S module. But while I was waiting for the relays to come in from Amazon I took the liberty to drain the coolant and install a new thermostat. I then had to order some new O-rings and once I get the radiator installed again and filled with fresh coolant I will give the Dyna module another try with the new relay set up. Stay tuned!
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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by AZnative » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:05 pm

Well I finally got back to trying to resolve my issue with the Dyna S. After connecting a relay to the battery and verifying full voltage from the relay to the red hot wire lead I dialed in the static timing for both F2 and F1 and the problem persists. Motor stumbles at idle, idle RPM at nearly 500 RPM down from about 1000 RPM with the original points. I replaced the Dyna for the third time with the original points and it runs fine.

One thing I noticed was that the exhaust coming from right side (cylinders 1 and 3) feels luke warm at best compared to the exhaust from the left side. Could it be that I’m not getting spark and ignition on cylinders 1 and 3 and could this indicate a bad Dyna module?

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Re: Dyna DS1-3 Help!

Post by dingdong » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:54 pm

A bad module is not out of the question. Happens often. Why don't you contact Dyna and see if they can help?

Did you ever check for a good ground at the plate?


Tom

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