1988 fuel pump test


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Mtrdrms
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1988 fuel pump test

Post by Mtrdrms » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:48 am



Hey guys,
I recently inherited an 88 that had been sitting for the better part of 15 years :o
I've got all the basics covered and I think it will run but I dont seem to have a working fuel pump.
I have read about testing at the ECU harness but since I have the pump out, I should be able to test in on the bench, right?
Well I've got a good ground and put power to the blue wire, but the pump wont wake up.




Is there a trick to this or should I order a new pump?
Thanks!
Andy


1988 GL1500

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Bluewaterhooker0
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Bluewaterhooker0 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:33 am

That should be the 'acid' test for the pump. If it doesn't fire up with direct connection to a power source, it's not gonna fire up at all.

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virgilmobile
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by virgilmobile » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:03 am

It may also just be gummed up.Id be tempted to soak it in 50%ATF-50%Acetone mix for a day...
Hook power to it and thump on it a few times with a screwdriver handle.If it takes off running submerge in a gallon of gas an run it open discharge back to the container.Cycle the pump several times over a few hours.
By the way..the ECM does not provide power to the pump on the 88/89 model.
It's "relay" controlled by spark and a 2 second self test.

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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Mtrdrms » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:06 pm

virgilmobile wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:03 am
It may also just be gummed up.Id be tempted to soak it in 50%ATF-50%Acetone mix for a day...
Hook power to it and thump on it a few times with a screwdriver handle.If it takes off running submerge in a gallon of gas an run it open discharge back to the container.Cycle the pump several times over a few hours.
By the way..the ECM does not provide power to the pump on the 88/89 model.
It's "relay" controlled by spark and a 2 second self test.
Ok, what the heck, I'll give it a try. Where is the fuel pump relay? I dont hear any clicking when I turn the key....
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bluthundr31
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by bluthundr31 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:00 pm

IIRC, the fuel pump relay is up above the right saddlebag, under the trunk, but since the pump is out of the bike now, the pump will run correctly with direct power to the + and green to ground. I had a similar issue with letting my beast sit for 8-10 years. My OEM pump was shot and I had to replace it with an aftermarket pump. All is well now.

After sitting for so long, you might have a ton of rust in that gas tank too, , , , that can be fixed easy enough with the electrolysis or vinegar methods though. Just FYI

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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Mtrdrms » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:19 pm

Ok, thank you for the information. I was thinking about using an aftermarket pump as the OEM is about $275.
Which pump did you go with? Was it easy to install? My sending unit and hoses are a little fried so I might get the whole shebang...
1988 GL1500

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bluthundr31
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by bluthundr31 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:07 pm

Yep, Mother-Honda seems to really hit HARD for those of us who still have the 30 yr. old rides. You can save 50-70% with aftermarket and the whole job is about 1 hr. worth of work.

This is what I used;

1- Napa/Carter P72190 Fuel pump ($51.57) NOTE: Keep the rubber "sleeve" from the old Fuel pump for use on the Carter pump (if possible).
1- Napa "strainer" FS0009 ($7.08)
1- 12" Length of Gates27093 Submersible fuel hose ($18.17) NOTE: When you connect the hose to the outlet of the pump AND to the inlet of the top "flange" DO NOT make the 90 degree bend too sharp or it will "kink" and prevent the flow of fuel. I needed 11" or 11.5" to make that bend "curve" gentle enough to prevent "kinking" it.

Tips:
1. Cut the wires to the OLD fuel pump as close to the fuel pump side as possible, they'll be just the right length to wire the Carter without having to mess with new wires.
2. There is a rubber "gasket" between the metal gas tank and the metal "flange bracket" of the fuel pump. I would recommend you spend another $10 and order a new one online. If yours is in great shape and you want to save the $10, you can re-use it, (but I'd rather have the peace-of-mind with a new one).
3. When re-installing the "flange bracket" into the gas tank, check to make sure it sits flat (flush) with the gas tank without putting pressure on the strainer/pump. You want a good "seal" between the rubber gasket and the gas tank or you'll "leak" gas from the bad seal when gas tank is 1/2 full.
4. Now that the fuel pump/flange is out, clean as much of that brown rust "gunk" out of the tank, it can clog up the strainer if it peels off and gets sucked up.
5. You'll find a "useless" breather hose inside the tank, near the top. Remove it and keep it in your "spare parts/junk" box. Its not needed with the new set-up.

I did a "search" for these parts and found them quickly, and free shipping was great!

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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Bluewaterhooker0 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:45 pm

Good info above. Just for your info, I checked prices on those parts at Rock Auto and came up with $34 pump, $5 strainer, and $12 hose.
I've used Rock Auto twice before with no issues.
A trick you may be able to use on sharp bends as are needed on this hose is to insert a piece of bent soft copper line to avoid links. The specs say its 5/16" i.d., so 1/4" copper should work. At the low pressure and low capacity needed for the carbs, it should still have adequate flow.

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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by bluthundr31 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:53 pm

I like the Rock Auto prices, , , shoulda checked em out. Good call Bluewaterhooker0!! The copper tube is a good idea too, , I've heard some use a 90 degree brass elbow with clamps at both ends too. Both ideas seem reasonable to me. I was lucky enough to make the hose connection without additional hardware and I'm dam pleased with how it performs.

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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Mtrdrms » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:14 pm

Thanks guys! Just placed order with rockauto. Will report back when it arrives...
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Bluewaterhooker0 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:21 pm

Also, as Virgil pointed out, the fuel pump on 88 and 89 are relay controlled. Unlike later models, the pump cycles with the initial turn of the ignition key, for a few seconds. So you should be able to test for that voltage while waiting for your parts. Key on, voltage for 2 - 3 seconds. I suspect you'd be able to hear the relay cycle as well, if it's working properly. So, maybe get a jump on another problem before your pump comes in.

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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Mtrdrms » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:28 pm

Bluewaterhooker0 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:21 pm
Also, as Virgil pointed out, the fuel pump on 88 and 89 are relay controlled. Unlike later models, the pump cycles with the initial turn of the ignition key, for a few seconds. So you should be able to test for that voltage while waiting for your parts. Key on, voltage for 2 - 3 seconds. I suspect you'd be able to hear the relay cycle as well, if it's working properly. So, maybe get a jump on another problem before your pump comes in.
Great idea. Will do. And the relay is under the trunk? Its not in the relay panel next to the fuses, correct?
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Bluewaterhooker0 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:04 pm

That's news to me. I had to look that up. It appears you are correct. The fuel pump relay looks to be under the trunk, or "top compartment", as they seem to call it. Attached is the service manual page dealing with your bike, or actually a 1989, but should be the same. It has some diagnostics included. However, if I were you, I'd do a voltage check at the wiring for the pump before I started tearing the bike apart. Your voltage may be fine, and the pump is the only issue.
Should you have to get to the relay. I don't know if the wiring diagram will be readable. But, it appears that with the ignition, and kill switches ON, you should have voltage at the Bk/Wht wire of the pump relay. It appears to be switched through the relay to Bk/Red which feeds the pump.

NOTE:
Again, before tearing into the bike. Should you not have voltage at the initial check of the pump wiring, I would check for a burned fuse in the fuse panel. The bad pump may have taken out a fuse.
Attachments





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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Mtrdrms » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:43 pm

Thats great information and advice. I just checked the connector at the pump and I get 12v for a few seconds when I turn on the key so that's good.
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Bluewaterhooker0 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:11 pm

Mtrdrms wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:43 pm
Thats great information and advice. I just checked the connector at the pump and I get 12v for a few seconds when I turn on the key so that's good.
Well, that eliminates, possibly, a whole bunch of other possible problems. Now, you just need to see if that voltage can also deliver enough amps to power the pump when you get it. I don't think I'd do that with a dry pump, BTW. It should be submerged in gasoline when you test it, and a pump volume test might be good to verify your new pump is up to the job. You should be able to do a variation on the test described in the attachment I posted, without jumping the relay under the box, by just cycling the ignition and doing the math for whatever time it runs in the self test mode. Or, you could just jump a battery direct to the pump for whatever time period you want. But, sounds like you may be good to go on the fuel pump end.

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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Mtrdrms » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:11 pm

Ok, the new fuel pump is working great. Thank you all for the advice on the parts.
Now it will start but once its running there is a steady flow of gas from this line:


It looks like a return line? Should it be routed somewhere else?

Thanks again.
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by ct1500 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:20 pm

That pipe is used when CA emissions are installed and would direct fuel vapors back into the engine. Fuel leaking out of there means one or both carbs are flooding out due to float-float valve issues.
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Mtrdrms » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Ugh. Dang.
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Mtrdrms » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:49 am

Ok, I pulled the carbs and cleaned them. Pilots were blocked and floats were stuck. Got it back together and it still leaks gas from the canister port and smokes pretty good. Is this because my floats are still stuck and I need to replace the valves? Anything else it could be?
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by virgilmobile » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:57 pm

Nope..gas goes in..floats rise and shut off the gas.
I've used a Q tip and brass polish to clean the seat too.Always test on the bench.It takes too much time pulling and putting just to find the same problem.

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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by virgilmobile » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:07 pm

Also smoking is a normal thing.Especially if it's been on the side stand for more than a day.It usually burns off pretty quick.
By the way..didja save your old pump?

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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Mtrdrms » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:39 pm

Ok, well it stopped leaking. Running well now. Seems to surge at low rpms? Other than that, good to go. Interestingly, when I took it apart, one of the fuel lines was routed over the accel pump so it couldnt move. Not sure if it had ever worked. Well, its fixed now.

Yes, i did keep the pump. Why?
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by bluthundr31 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:55 pm

Good to hear it running better and no problems (except the low rpm surge). I would suggest that you run the next 3-4 tanks of gas with about 2 oz. per gallon of Seafoam. It can clean out most any fuel related troubles, , , sticky floats, mucked jets etc. It won't do it overnight, but give it atleast 500 miles (3-4 tanks). In City driving try to keep your rpm's around 2k or slightly lower. The "idle" jets are bypassed at higher rpm's.

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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by Mtrdrms » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:19 pm

Ah, smart keeping it under 2k. Thanks for the advice blu!
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Re: 1988 fuel pump test

Post by virgilmobile » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:25 pm

Mtrdrms wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:39 pm

Yes, i did keep the pump. Why?
Just wondering if you were going to keep it for a spare fixer upper to have on hand.



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