cannot hold rpm at 1k


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ba7
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cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:30 pm



check linked video if needed.



as you can see, it is hard to maintain a 1000 rpm, or to creep between 1 and 2 k rpm. other than that its all good. once i pull the throttle past a certain point it revs from one k past 2krpm.

am assuming the jets on the side (one for each carb). any advice? Id rather not take out the carb of course. :)

I havent run the bike much yet, but i noticed horrible gas mileage. 76 miles on a tank (keep in mind old gas and petcock was leaking and is now bypassed)

is there anyone out there with advice?



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ba7
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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:22 pm

as i have just learnt from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22125 and the video in it, the upper jets that are connected to the fuel pump are clogged, i didnt see them drip whatsoever.

is there a way to clean them without taking it apart?

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:58 pm

as per this video and in comparison with mine, the sliders are actually way to slow on mine.



while the accel pump jets dont spit whatsoever on mine.

i need to figure out where the accel pump is to test it.

i also need to figure out why the sliders are slow.

as compared with virgils video



his pump is bad, but still squirting while mine isnt, his sliders are as slow as mine.

mostly notes to self, but hopefully someone will chime in! :)

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:18 pm

so accel pump and fuel line going to pump and float.... thank you all for helping by leaving all the comments and posts everywhere. nice puzzle! :) :ugeek:

http://randakksblog.com/wp-content/uplo ... L15-03.jpg

I now understand where this pump is, how it works, where it gets fuel from (almost, i havent seen it live on the bike, id love to know for sure before i dig in. I am hoping to do the partial rotate of the carbs. I havent found much detailed resources yet. someone just mentioning quick in a comment.

since i have no squirt at all I am hoping its a fuel connection (as i read someone mention), but i mean where is that gas going! :) what else could it be! a failed pump would leak no? since it is a diaphragm like the petcock?


quoted from another site

If that diaphragm is not damaged, then the jets are plugged. Or someone left the activator rod disconnected

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RockportDave
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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by RockportDave » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:26 pm

Welcome ba7. Nice looking bike.
The accelerator pump is on the side of the right carb (#4 in diagram).


The bottom of the air cleaner will need to come off to get to it. You can take the top plate off the carbs while on the bike, but use an impact driver (photo below) to break loose the screws on the plate, they are tight.


If it sat for a while, the carbs are probably stopped up.
Mine sat a lot before I bought it and I removed the top plate and cleaned it while on the bike. Get a pair of long needle nose pliers if you don’t have them. While re-installing the air cleaner bottom, there is a hose on the front right that connects to the bottom that is a real PITA to reconnect.
If you do decide to remove the carbs, get a long Phillips screwdriver also to loosen the carb insulators (rubber boots) that hold them to the intake.
I would get the petcock rebuilt first to be sure you are getting fuel to the carbs. Kits are reasonable and online.
If your not sure if or when the timing belts were changed, that definitely needs to be done soon. If one strips teeth off or breaks it will kill the engine. These are interference engines, which means it will bend valves and probably put a hole in a piston.
Lots of good info here to get it running right.
Dave
1999 GL1500SE 5th Goldwing through the years

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ba7
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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:34 pm

yes sir. somuch info! i am now readyto remove the actual carb. looking to rotate the carb and inspect the accel pump!

trying to locate which screws need to come off for the partial rotate thing. i had the page open and now it is ba7! :) gone!

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by RockportDave » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:47 pm

When I removed my carbs and overhauled them, I soaked them in Berrymans carb dip for about 1 hour each, rinsed them with water and sprayed them with carb cleaner to get the water off. Be sure to follow the directions on the can. I also replaced the main and slow jets, the jet holders, the idle air screws and all orings. I used new Honda parts I got online. I did not want to have to pull them again.
Be sure to set the floats per the specs and directions in the GL1500 service manual.
Below is a good write up on rebuilding the carbs. There are a few differences in the years, but it’s a good guide.
http://www.jmartino.me/carb/
Dave
1999 GL1500SE 5th Goldwing through the years

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:53 am

Hey dave, thanks for the advice.

jim's how to is what I will follow, But I am kinda unsure about where all the screws are. I located the two main ones facing each other left and right.

I am assuming that 6 screws he speaks of are at the top. hoping I am right, because i dont see anything else. :P

now for the extra two behind the carb (fton of bike?) he specifies two on center left but i only have one on center right (front of bike with carb in)

Could this be a difference between 88 and 90+?

also regarding the accel pump rebuild, any gaskets? o rings or hidden stuff that will delay me? whatever might not come with the rebuild kit.



"There are 2 bolts to loosen, one on each side toward the rear. You can see the brass colored one in the picture right next to the green piece of tape. There is a like one on the opposite side. And there are 6 screws that need to be undone. 3 around each carb barrel.
There are two more screws toward the rear left center. "

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by bellboy40 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:45 pm

ba7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:53 am
Hey dave, thanks for the advice.

jim's how to is what I will follow, But I am kinda unsure about where all the screws are. I located the two main ones facing each other left and right.

I am assuming that 6 screws he speaks of are at the top. hoping I am right, because i dont see anything else. :P
Those are three screws around the top of each carb and they are very tight. You will likely need an impact screwdriver to get them loose. Be careful not to ruin the head of those screws.

now for the extra two behind the carb (fton of bike?) he specifies two on center left but i only have one on center right (front of bike with carb in)
These screws are on the back, left of center, and are very tight also. I got mine loose and just removed the whole thing leaving the hoses attached to it. Here is what it looks like. Red arrow points to it.


Could this be a difference between 88 and 90+?

also regarding the accel pump rebuild, any gaskets? o rings or hidden stuff that will delay me? whatever might not come with the rebuild kit.
There are a couple of o rings on the tube that the accel pump shoots fuel through. It would be good to replace those if they don't come in the kit.


"There are 2 bolts to loosen, one on each side toward the rear. You can see the brass colored one in the picture right next to the green piece of tape. There is a like one on the opposite side. And there are 6 screws that need to be undone. 3 around each carb barrel.
There are two more screws toward the rear left center. "

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ct1500 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:56 pm

The accelerator pump is not the cause of the RPM jumping from 1k to 2k, pump only helps to prevent a hesitation when opening throttle.

I would be looking at main jet, air jet controller problems etc. The engine is not advancing until the secondary mains start to open hence no fuel provided by mains prior to the slides opening.
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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:29 pm

ct1500 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:56 pm
The accelerator pump is not the cause of the RPM jumping from 1k to 2k, pump only helps to prevent a hesitation when opening throttle.

that hesitation is what i have. it is more of jumping from .5 to 1.2 or maintaining an rpm in that range specifically. i tried to take off the carb, i managed to get one of the manifold screws undone /faceslap. :P

i also managed to strip the two screws for the accel pump. still cant get them off but guess what, i just pulled the throttle with fuel hoses off and the accel pump is squirting with the engine off. out of the blue. must be odin :twisted: interfering in my business again...


I would be looking at main jet, air jet controller problems etc. The engine is not advancing until the secondary mains start to open hence no fuel provided by mains prior to the slides opening.

that would require the whole thing off no? not that i am against that at all, I just hope the accel pump resolved my issue. if not ill keep digging.
Last edited by ba7 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:33 pm

bellboy40 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:45 pm

Those are three screws around the top of each carb and they are very tight. You will likely need an impact screwdriver to get them loose. Be careful not to ruin the head of those screws.

so i have only two screws on each side and they are not tight, means carb has been worked on as i have hoped. and hopefully is in good shape still.


now for the extra two behind the carb (fton of bike?) he specifies two on center left but i only have one on center right (front of bike with carb in)
These screws are on the back, left of center, and are very tight also. I got mine loose and just removed the whole thing leaving the hoses attached to it. Here is what it looks like. Red arrow points to it.
Carb removal.JPG

Oh god! here it is. :) thank you sir. i hope you find happiness in your whole life :D:D
90 degree angle with extension huh?! what a puzzle!

Could this be a difference between 88 and 90+? so far the differences are two screws on top instead of three.

also regarding the accel pump rebuild, any gaskets? o rings or hidden stuff that will delay me? whatever might not come with the rebuild kit.
There are a couple of o rings on the tube that the accel pump shoots fuel through. It would be good to replace those if they don't come in the kit. Will I find those locally? off a specific isle?



"There are 2 bolts to loosen, one on each side toward the rear. You can see the brass colored one in the picture right next to the green piece of tape. There is a like one on the opposite side. And there are 6 screws that need to be undone. 3 around each carb barrel. so these three, lets call them two on an 88, the top 4, instead of top six, they need to come off? for the carb to rotate?
There are two more screws toward the rear left center. "
[/quote]
Last edited by ba7 on Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:35 pm

makes me think more about the accel pump! why did it come back now with the fuel off? great squirt, i thought the thing was dead. did i unblock a vaccuum by mistake? will it still work with bike on?

upon testing, reconnected the fuel lines, turned the bike on, great.
throttle got the accel pump nozzle to barely drip, so little that instead of the fuel falling in a line straight into the carb like when the bike is off, it dribbled on the nozzle (no pressure) and crawled down on the wall. stopped me from maintaining a steady idle between .5 and 1.2 k rpm. killed the bike, turned the throttle, and i got a full squirt again. so this accelerator pump is working great when bike is off. then shitty when it comes back on. someone? idea? :idea: :?: :roll:


i had loosened the throttle cable on my way to uninstalling, and thats where i am stopped. thats when i noticed the accel jet coming with a full squirt for the first time while bike is off.

i had heard someone mention bending something down that side by hand, like the wheel or something, to get the bike to respond faster. ill try to find that reference. so maybe me tinkering with the throttle cables also has something to do with the revival. maybe moving the vacuum cable around on the left and right(with the bendable thang) maybe the seafoam and carb cleaner :)


while the bike was running i covered each of the carb by hand, and the bike stuttered and died instantly on the left. 2 more seconds on the right. i noticed the vacuum on the left was a lot more present in comparison with the right carb, which was very weak. i guess this is a leak i developed by undoing the right manifold screw too much and rocked the carb a bit. makes sense? so maybe if i push it back in it will become better. tried pushing back. no. i noticed on the right when i put my hand to block the air, it will rev up a bit. i saw a reference to this somewhere. running too rich or too lean. can never really fully retain that stuff. wait a sec. it was actually a leak test, the dude was saying in order to test if there is a leak down there, run the bike and spray something (cant retain specifics lol) and if there is a leak the bike will rev. how does that connect? in the next day or two a friend is passing by, he has more experience than i do. I am excited about this bike :) i bet you all know the feeling



i narrowed it down quite a bit. someone can maybe now hit the nail on the head! :D

keep tinkerin. 2 days ago i had no idea what i was getting myself into. such a noob at heart. I must thank all of you for maintaining this and other communities such as this active and available to the public. now i am still a noob, but i have experience aka i tried to do something and **** up and also fixed something by mistake. need to know why. how! :)

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ct1500 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:56 pm

The accelerator pump is manufactured temperature compensating, more shot when cold little to none when warm.
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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:17 pm

ct1500 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:56 pm
The accelerator pump is manufactured temperature compensating, more shot when cold little to none when warm.

i bet what u said has to do with the article i read about the hole inside the pump, vacuum bypass, one guy found that the outlet, if u blow in it, leaks back inside the center or something :) temperature compensating fine, but i bet its not made for off operation. is it?! :)

i have it barely dribling without the bike reaching temperature or anything. we are talking within the 1st min on. :) i can only get it to squirt if the bike is off completely.

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:13 pm

Carb is out. :) will edit post as we go fwd.

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:04 pm

cleaned carb put it back, bent the accel pump just enough. it still wont p[ump while bike is on, and pumps awesome as bike is off.

i tested with the choke, and there is a dead spot between 900 and 1.1k rpm.
can anyone direct me where i can find info about this?
i tested more with the choke, at cold op temp, and i had the same effect at 1.5. holding a throttle at 1/8th maybe, like barely, and i cant get the bike to hold steadily at 1 k rpm. hesitation just there. i can ride the bike, as long as i am on hiways, just hard to manouevre at smaller speed and in town. not safe.

it is either one of the jets as someone had suggested, or rich lean situation, which should mean syncing?

if i block the right carb it revs.
if i block the left it dies instantly.


what is this an indication of?

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ct1500 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:40 am

ba7 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:04 pm
if i block the right carb it revs.
if i block the left it dies instantly.
what is this an indication of?
Right side of engine is running lean due to either vacuum leaks or carb/carb related issues with the emission-driveability systems.
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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:09 pm

awesome replaced hoses of the CA model carb stuff! :)

running better. only with a bit of choke, lean it is.
the idle screw wont fix it but a bit of choke would.
could this indicate more vacuum?
or am i reaching in for the pilot jet screws?
these are next to the radiator hoses? one on each side under something something. i am reading but not too clear. looks like a carb off job again no?


We are so close! am starting to think of putting her back together for a test ride.

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by RockportDave » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:42 pm

Take spray carb cleaner and spray in this area


Checking for a leak in this hose, under the carbs, where the 90 deg is.




It is notorious for a hole in it at the 90 ELL.
You can also check other areas with short burst of carb cleaner.
Dave
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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:10 pm

RockportDave wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:42 pm
Take spray carb cleaner and spray in this area
3FEDFC8D-7BEF-47DD-AAE2-B7576B9C1204.jpeg
Checking for a leak in this hose, under the carbs, where the 90 deg is.
1876CE47-DD14-4091-95E1-E1B9EA584D6E.jpeg
F7C4434B-5091-4A70-9CF0-7AA8FA3FFD02.jpeg
It is notorious for a hole in it at the 90 ELL.
You can also check other areas with short burst of carb cleaner.
Dave
DONE, vacuum LOOKS SOLID.

i put her back together and took her for a spin.
if i have choke on just a hair (like seriously barely noticeablt change in rpm), the hesitation taking of at 1k rpm is non existent, just gone. crisp bike.

I have developed a rather minor twitch in the idle when choke is off.

I am glad with those results for this week. but for after i get the parts, I was wondering how to fix that lean situation?

from what i understood the choke actually closes air, forcing gas out.

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by kane67 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:37 am

Did you check idle jet size? Has it been updated, recall http://www.goldwingworld.com/pages/sb2.pdf
How much pilot screws are open?

Mine had original setup, I updated #50 jets to #55. I keep pilot screws open 3 1/8 turns.
Carb ventilation updates are done (tubings).
http://www.goldwingworld.com/pages/sb1.pdf

All gl1500 recalls http://www.goldwingworld.com/pages/recalls%20GL1500.htm

br, kane

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Re: cannot hold rpm at 1k

Post by ba7 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:30 am

kane67 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:37 am
Did you check idle jet size? Has it been updated, recall http://www.goldwingworld.com/pages/sb2.pdf
How much pilot screws are open?

Mine had original setup, I updated #50 jets to #55. I keep pilot screws open 3 1/8 turns.
Carb ventilation updates are done (tubings).
http://www.goldwingworld.com/pages/sb1.pdf

All gl1500 recalls http://www.goldwingworld.com/pages/recalls%20GL1500.htm

br, kane

Hi Kane,

carb vent update already done. i think, ca model.

in the list of recalls everything seems to be done. i havent checked on the jets but given everything had been done, i assume it was done.

the pilot screws (hidden under something front side of carb/bike) i never looked for them with the carb off. so i dont know what shape they are in and what kind of work it will require. someone has some voncos about it but i didnt find info clear enough to make me understand without having the carbs out again.

I will order a full kit eventually, ill check on jets then. am just doing a bunch of testing now to see if i can make it better.

if i end up rebuilding at least i have something to compare with.


ill take her for a spin. see what she feels


one other thing, is sliders only start moving after a certain rpm.
coupled with barely reactive accel pump although i rebuilt it. and had it squirting while bike is off. now it wont squirt at all again although i just rebuilt it

ive been struggling with this! the slider area isclean, the diaphragms and springs are in good shape. they just dont want to move on smaller throttle moves (i am comparing in my mind to virgilmobile's video of his after rebuild. the sliders and the accel pump nozzles were crisp! mine are still not! i dont know if this is related to vacuum or somehow related to the lean situation.


i could assume this is vacuum, maybe kinked? i checked but u never know!



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