Engine has 'dieseling' sound


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larrythecabinetguy
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Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
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Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:28 pm



I purchased a '96 GL1500 SE last Fall with 68,500 miles on it. It was garaged it's entire life and very clean. When I purchased it, I noted that it had a noise I had not heard on other Wings. It is low volume, but enough to be very noticeable (spelled 'aggravating')to me, low pitch, very much as if it is dieseling, but is regular and goes up or down per the throttle/engine revs. It disappears as the motor settles down after letting off the throttle quickly, and starts up again upon reaching idle speed. It is consistent with clutch in or out, in gear or out, sitting still or on the road, cold or running temp. There is no indication of anything being wrong as far as running. It is very smooth, and has good power without hesitation, more than I expected after having ridden an 1800 for the last 3 years, and shifts out cleanly. Other than this noise, the bike is nearly perfect. I have no maintenance records other than a new alternator, brake and clutch fluid flush and oil change. I have replaced the timing belts and idler bearings, which appeared to have been the originals, with no change in the noise level, although the engine is a little smoother, which may be due to 2 tanks of gas with fuel system cleaner in them. I checked the air filter and it looks new, and is a clean K&N permanent filter. I have begun to think that this filter is allowing the carb noise to pass the interior of the engine to the outside through the intake. The noise is very apparent from the front of the bike as well as the driver position coming from the fork openings, especially the left side. I noted that this filter looks very different than the OEM, and, as those who have used or seen them, the K&N washable filters are very transparent, so much so I have wondered if they are actually doing the job. The bike is torn down now awaiting arrival of the cruise and pre-filters, which were crumbling as I inspected them. I have run it without the filter with the carbs open to air. The sound has changed but of course, I now have the hissing of the intake on the carbs so hard to tell, but, the sound does certainly have the same rhythm as the carbs. Anyone have a similar experience?



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DenverWinger
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1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
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Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by DenverWinger » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:08 pm

I've heard mixed reviews on the K & N filters (some swear BY them, others swear AT them :lol: ), have never used one myself. Possible the reduced "air resistance" may be causing a slightly lean condition? Don't know that this is causing your noise, but if it were me, I'd put an OEM filter....
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

larrythecabinetguy
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Carriere, MS
Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
2001 Escapade Trailer
Contact:

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:11 pm

I might add that I have a neighbor who has a 2000 GL1500 SE, says he has the same filter, but his bike is ultra quiet.

larrythecabinetguy
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Carriere, MS
Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
2001 Escapade Trailer
Contact:

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:18 pm

Thanks DenverWinger. That is something I considered the minute I saw the filter. May have to give it a try. Sure is hard to set an $80 filter aside!

larrythecabinetguy
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Carriere, MS
Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
2001 Escapade Trailer
Contact:

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:22 pm

While I have the plastic off, I will try to isolate the sound. I just hope it is not mechanical! It will have to wait until tomorrow, however.

TwoTone Trike
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Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by TwoTone Trike » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:37 pm

Could it possibly have an aftermarket exhaust? I don't know, just sayin. Good luck and let us know what you find out.

larrythecabinetguy
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Carriere, MS
Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
2001 Escapade Trailer
Contact:

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:47 pm

Ok. Couldn't take the suspense so went to the shop and installed the filter and housing. Made no difference, and the sound is coming from the top of the engine but not out of the filter housing. It really sounds like you just raised the hood on a small diesel engine. If I pop and then let go of the throttle the sound disappears momentarily but resumes at idle. If I raise the throttle a little at the time, the sound stays tied to the revs of the engine. From what I can tell, it is coming from the top of the engine below the carbs, and sounds like it is in the engine, much like the compression tone of a diesel. I have had to point the sound out to everybody who has listened to it, and at first they say they can't hear it, then I play with the throttle a bit and they can hear it come in and out as I described above.
When I removed the plugs I noted that the front right plug was black, whereas the rest looked to be burning clean. Could it be a burnt valve and what I am hearing is backfire/pressure through the intake? There is no tapping in the valve covers. There is no misfire. The engine is smooth running and responsive.

larrythecabinetguy
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Carriere, MS
Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
2001 Escapade Trailer
Contact:

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:53 pm

TwoTone Trike- thanks for chiming in. The exhaust appears to be original all the way. I will remove the filter housing tomorrow and see if there may be a leak at the intake.

Rodzim
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Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by Rodzim » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:49 pm

I dont mean to scare you but what you describe sounds like piston slapping. I would absolutely rule everything else out first before even considering piston slap, especially considering the reliability and build quality of these engines.
Piston slapping happens when the piston skirts wear out and the piston doesnt sit square to the cylinder wall, some movement is normal but it doesnt take much wear for the piston to start rocking in the cylinder, thus slapping the wall. If you have your plastics off you can remove the spark plugs and put a camera down the cylinders with the piston all the way down. If there is a bad piston you will see abnormal wear on one side of the cylinder wall or both.
I doubt that is your problem but its something worth checking.
Good luck

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DenverWinger
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1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
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1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by DenverWinger » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:45 am

Thought just occurred to me, I bet the rubber dampening blocks for the Alternator drive are shot. :idea:
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

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BikerBuck
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Motorcycle: 1998 GL1500 SE
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Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by BikerBuck » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:01 am

I'm with DenverWinger on this one. Other posts on this site have made reference to the fact that the dampers have difficulty matching with replacement alternators.

kane67
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Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by kane67 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:19 am

Is this the sound you mean?



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bellboy40
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Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by bellboy40 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:08 pm

What you are describing sounds to me like the vacuum hose has come off under the right front side of the air filter housing. It is a bear to get back on, which is probably why it is off. Someone may have had the carbs out and had trouble getting it reattached. The easiest way I have found is to remove the right fan and then you can just reach in with your hand and put it back on. Getting the fan out and back in is not so easy either.
Edit: Just now thought of the most probable reason the hose was off. He had the air filter housing off when replacing the stock air filter with the K&N.

kane67
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Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by kane67 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:31 pm

yep, it's the crankcase vent tube where this sound in my video comes.

here's one pic from web

larrythecabinetguy
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Carriere, MS
Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
2001 Escapade Trailer
Contact:

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:39 pm

Wow! Thanks to everyone! I told my wife this morning that the sound just didn't strike me as being a knock so much as some kind of compression or vacuum. I was suspicious of the vacuum connections under the filter housing but was waiting to see what some of you might think. The video by kane67 is dead on the money. I will go out and check it out in a little while and get back to you all. Again, this forum is the best thing on the net for Goldwingers!

larrythecabinetguy
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Carriere, MS
Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
2001 Escapade Trailer
Contact:

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:59 pm

DenverWinger wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:45 am
Thought just occurred to me, I bet the rubber dampening blocks for the Alternator drive are shot. :idea:

The alternator is new as of last summer. Don't know about the rubber.

larrythecabinetguy
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Carriere, MS
Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
2001 Escapade Trailer
Contact:

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:30 pm

bellboy40 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:08 pm
What you are describing sounds to me like the vacuum hose has come off under the right front side of the air filter housing. It is a bear to get back on, which is probably why it is off. Someone may have had the carbs out and had trouble getting it reattached. The easiest way I have found is to remove the right fan and then you can just reach in with your hand and put it back on. Getting the fan out and back in is not so easy either.
Edit: Just now thought of the most probable reason the hose was off. He had the air filter housing off when replacing the stock air filter with the K&N.
This was it exactly. I took the top and filter off of the housing, removed the little elbow over the port for that vac tube, and, sure enough, I could see part of the top of the hose through the hole. I removed the base of the housing and of course, the tube was just sitting there. It did not have any type of clamp on it but had an impression where there was one before. I was able to replace the base and after removing the right fan, reach in and feed it onto the nipple. Put the filter and upper housing back in place and cranked her up. HALLELUJAH! Problem solved! Quiet, smooth, and sounds like a Gold Wing! I am so glad you guys got to me before I put everything back together and took it to my mechanic. I think you are right also about putting the filter on. I had to fit it into the top housing before I put it on to make it work, and it was a pain at that. This allowed it to fit into the bottom of the housing without much trouble. There is no flange on that nipple, and it appears that the clamp was only a spring/wire type, judging from the impression on the hose. I will go into town tomorrow to see if I can find one or something that may put a little squeeze on the hose before I put it back on. Any thoughts on this? I will check to see what it takes to get it off in the morning. If it is snug I may just leave it since there is vacuum on it when on the road, but I always try to 'fix' things like this properly so I don't have to do it away from home or on the highway.
THANKS TO EVERY ONE WHO OFFERED HELP. VERY MUCH APPRECIATED! Here is a link to the bike on cycletrader. Thanks to you all it now runs as well as it looks. https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/199 ... 5005186488

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BikerBuck
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Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by BikerBuck » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:32 pm

Congrats! I love fixits like that.

kane67
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Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by kane67 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:42 am

:D Great!!

Br, kane

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4given
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Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by 4given » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:03 am

You can get that hose on from the top with the right angled needle nose pliers if they are long enough. as for the pinch clamp, that is another story. Glad it was a vacuum noise :D

Dan

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bellboy40
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Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by bellboy40 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:09 am

That is a beautiful machine. Congrats on getting it and fixing the mystery noise.
I've heard others say they could get that vacuum hose back on with some long handled angled pliers, but I couldn't get it back on that way. There is just so little room to work there. I found that it was much easier to remove the fan and then just reach in and put it back on.
Oh btw, you are right about the clamp on that hose under the filter housing. It is just a little wire spring clamp. You might find one at a hardware store. My 94 model didn't have one on it when I got it either, but it stays there pretty well without one.
Last edited by bellboy40 on Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

larrythecabinetguy
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Carriere, MS
Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
2001 Escapade Trailer
Contact:

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:19 am

bellboy40 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:09 am
That is a beautiful machine. Congrats on getting it and fixing the mystery noise.
I've heard others say they could get that vacuum hose back on with some long handled angled pliers, but I couldn't get it back on that way. There is just so little room to work there. I found that it was much easier to remove the fan and then just reach in and put it back on.
My neighbor and riding buddy has the same bike you have, same color. Absolutely beautiful machine! I also found it near impossible to do any other way but to remove the fan. Since I had the plastic off anyway it was not that big a deal. Of course, I have not tried putting it back on either!

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bellboy40
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1994 GL1500SE Pearl Bermuda Green

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by bellboy40 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:33 am

larrythecabinetguy wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:19 am
bellboy40 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:09 am
That is a beautiful machine. Congrats on getting it and fixing the mystery noise.
I've heard others say they could get that vacuum hose back on with some long handled angled pliers, but I couldn't get it back on that way. There is just so little room to work there. I found that it was much easier to remove the fan and then just reach in and put it back on.
Oh btw, you are right about the clamp on that hose under the filter housing. It is just a little wire spring clamp. You might find one at a hardware store. My 94 model didn't have one on it when I got it either, but it stays there pretty well without one.
My neighbor and riding buddy has the same bike you have, same color. Absolutely beautiful machine! I also found it near impossible to do any other way but to remove the fan. Since I had the plastic off anyway it was not that big a deal. Of course, I have not tried putting it back on either!
I found that putting the fan back in was easier if I had something to put between the fan and the wires etc that was behind the fan that it tries to hang on going back in. I used a putty knife that had about a 45° angle on it to put behind the fan when putting it back and that helped me slide it back in place without it snagging on something. I think anything that is smooth and pliable to put there, such as a piece of plastic, would help. That is just my thoughts on how you might get it back in a little easier.

larrythecabinetguy
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Carriere, MS
Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
2001 Escapade Trailer
Contact:

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:40 am

One other thing (clue) I noticed and let get by without diagnosing what it was: When the crankcase is not vented properly, as through the breather, there is a consistent, and persistent smell of un-burned or poorly burned gas. It has a strong petroleum smell, and even permeates your clothes, skin and hair, and can cause mucus membrane and eye burning.
I noticed this when I rode the first 50 miles home from picking the bike up when I bought it. Had it not had a vented windshield it might have overcome me.
It reminded me of working on or riding in an old car that needed the pcv valve cleaned or replaced. It also causes the exhaust to smell like it is burning rich. After getting the hose back on the breather, the smell disappeared and I had no residual odors on myself or my clothing.
If run for an extended time in this condition the engine oil will become contaminated and begin to wash itself off the parts it is supposed to lubricate, thus wearing the engine prematurely as well.
I hope this thread and the observations of all the posters will save someone else a lot of trouble and money as it did me!

larrythecabinetguy
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:17 pm
Location: Carriere, MS
Motorcycle: 1956 Simplex Servi-cycle, Stolen
1965 Yamaha 60, Sold
1965 Honda Dream 305, Sold
1976 R6/75 BMW, Sold
1999 1100 Shadow, Sold
2006 Kawasaki Nomad, Sold
2002 GL1800, Sold.
1996 GL1500SE, Sold.
2005 Gl1800 ABS
2001 Escapade Trailer
Contact:

Re: Engine has 'dieseling' sound

Post by larrythecabinetguy » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:50 am

bellboy40 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:33 am
larrythecabinetguy wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:19 am
bellboy40 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:09 am
That is a beautiful machine. Congrats on getting it and fixing the mystery noise.
I've heard others say they could get that vacuum hose back on with some long handled angled pliers, but I couldn't get it back on that way. There is just so little room to work there. I found that it was much easier to remove the fan and then just reach in and put it back on.
Oh btw, you are right about the clamp on that hose under the filter housing. It is just a little wire spring clamp. You might find one at a hardware store. My 94 model didn't have one on it when I got it either, but it stays there pretty well without one.
My neighbor and riding buddy has the same bike you have, same color. Absolutely beautiful machine! I also found it near impossible to do any other way but to remove the fan. Since I had the plastic off anyway it was not that big a deal. Of course, I have not tried putting it back on either!
I found that putting the fan back in was easier if I had something to put between the fan and the wires etc that was behind the fan that it tries to hang on going back in. I used a putty knife that had about a 45° angle on it to put behind the fan when putting it back and that helped me slide it back in place without it snagging on something. I think anything that is smooth and pliable to put there, such as a piece of plastic, would help. That is just my thoughts on how you might get it back in a little easier.
Yes, I noticed that the wire bundle coming across the top of the fan housing actually had an impression on it from the corner of the housing, I knew then I was probably looking at an opponent to re-installation. I am beginning to have second thoughts about selling the bike. It is in excellent condition and I am not sure I can replace it for what I will get for it. May be better to keep it. It will certainly run another 10 years, and that is only about a dollar a day to have a Gold Wing available when the need arises. Which has been pretty frequent around here lately! :D



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