removing linked brake system


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Mikeanthony
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removing linked brake system

Post by Mikeanthony » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:15 am



I am in the process of putting together a naked gold wing using a 1987 GL1200 Interstate. I want to covert the linked brake system to a system which uses both rotors on the front wheel activated by the hand brake master cylinder. Does anyone have advice as to the easiest way to get this done? Thanks.



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geraldm
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by geraldm » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:07 am

leave it as it is . your F u%$# ing with your life .

Mikeanthony
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by Mikeanthony » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:18 pm

Thanks for the advice but I like the way the other system works much better than the linked system. I believe that having most of the braking efforton the wheel that has the most downforce on it makes for safer braking and I have become used to it. Every other bike I have had including Kawasakis, BMWs and others used the front brake system and I think the system responds faster..

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SilverDave
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by SilverDave » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:36 pm

Lots of advice here : some pro, some con

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2-g ... kes-2.html

See Quakes comments, and Mike , and AZG and Hosner ( next page ) and exavid and SGD ( prvious page ) on " swept volume and what the hand brake will have to be doing to make two calibers actually work

but I personally would not recommend it , just from a safety standpoint . Its a heavy bike , even naked .

SilverDave

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Rednaxs60
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by Rednaxs60 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:20 pm

The brakes on these 1200 GWs are quite good. Have been on an advanced riding course and one of the sessions is emergency/threshold braking. These brakes will stop the 1200 GW just as fast as those bikes that do not have linked brakes such as your BMW, Kawasakis and others.

Having the linked brakes is also nice when doing slow speed maneuvers, or parking lot driving when the front brake is not your friend.

You will find the brakes perform quite well as designed. The left front caliper and the rear brake caliper have the same size pistons so the oil and dust seals are the same. The front right brake caliper pistons are smaller. The reason for this is that it is linked to the rear brake. Once you get the brakes sorted out, you probably won't notice any difference between this bike and one with "normal" brakes.

As I mention above the front brakes calipers are not the same size. Looked at the fiche and the caliper(s) for the 1983 1100 appears to not have linked brakes. It would appear that Honda started linked brakes in the 1984 GW year.

It is possible to do a conversion, but as had been mentioned on other forums/post, you will need a bucket full of parts. Goofaroo on this forum was contemplating doing the same, but once he got his brakes system refurbished, I believe he was pleasantly surprised at the results.

These 1200s are not designed or intended to be a replacement for the more sportier bikes, although when the suspension is in good shape and the bike is setup well, the 1200 can give notice to the sportier bikes.

Just a few thoughts on your question.

Good Luck. Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

Mikeanthony
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by Mikeanthony » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:31 pm

I want to thank everyone for their advice. The number and quality of the replies are impressive. I appreciate your efforts.

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WingAdmin
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by WingAdmin » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:00 am

Like others said, there are issues with master vs two slave cylinder volumes, piston diameters, etc.

I would FIRST recommend swapping your brake lines out for stainless steel braided lines, if you haven't already. I suspect after doing that, you won't feel the need to remove the linked system. Swapping out my old, tired rubber OEM lines for stainless lines on my GL1100 transformed the bike, and the brakes went from spongy and weak to sharp and powerful. It was the single best upgrade I made to that bike.

Mikeanthony
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by Mikeanthony » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:05 am

In response to the overwhelming flood of information, I have decided to replace my old brake lines with SS ones. I am still more comfortable with using the brake lever rather than the pedal because every bike I have had in the past worked that way. Nevertheless, I will heed the advice of those who have taken the time to keep me from doing something dumb. Thanks, everyone.

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CrystalPistol
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by CrystalPistol » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:28 am

Mikeanthony wrote:In response to the overwhelming flood of information, I have decided to replace my old brake lines with SS ones. I am still more comfortable with using the brake lever rather than the pedal because every bike I have had in the past worked that way. Nevertheless, I will heed the advice of those who have taken the time to keep me from doing something dumb. Thanks, everyone.
The trick to stopping the GL1200 fast is to simply "use both".

The SS braided lines and using OEM pads and periodic fluid changes will go a long ways towards optimal braking.
Image

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Goofaroo
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by Goofaroo » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:28 pm

I had the same concerns about the linked system when I bought my 1200. The brakes were useless but after rebuilding the calipers, master cylinders, and switching to steel lines, they are acceptable. The front brake lever can still scrub speed in a hurry even just linked to one caliper and adding the rear can shut things down quickly.

I would still prefer "normal brakes" but it wouldn't be worth the trouble to convert the system. I have found that I don't generally ride the Wing as aggressively as I thought I would and that the brakes are fine for the bike. If I want to ride with a bit more speed and handling I have other bikes for that. The Wing is used to take rides with the wife onboard and she doesn't like for me to hammer through the twisties with her on the bike anyway. If you get your system working as new you'll most likely be content with it. I was VERY skeptical of the linked system but it turned out to be less of a nuisance than I thought it would.

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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by Sparky4017 » Tue May 02, 2017 7:05 am

Rednaxs60 wrote:The brakes on these 1200 GWs are quite good. Have been on an advanced riding course and one of the sessions is emergency/threshold braking. These brakes will stop the 1200 GW just as fast as those bikes that do not have linked brakes such as your BMW, Kawasakis and others.

Having the linked brakes is also nice when doing slow speed maneuvers, or parking lot driving when the front brake is not your friend.

You will find the brakes perform quite well as designed. The left front caliper and the rear brake caliper have the same size pistons so the oil and dust seals are the same. The front right brake caliper pistons are smaller. The reason for this is that it is linked to the rear brake. Once you get the brakes sorted out, you probably won't notice any difference between this bike and one with "normal" brakes.

As I mention above the front brakes calipers are not the same size. Looked at the fiche and the caliper(s) for the 1983 1100 appears to not have linked brakes. It would appear that Honda started linked brakes in the 1984 GW year.

It is possible to do a conversion, but as had been mentioned on other forums/post, you will need a bucket full of parts. Goofaroo on this forum was contemplating doing the same, but once he got his brakes system refurbished, I believe he was pleasantly surprised at the results.

These 1200s are not designed or intended to be a replacement for the more sportier bikes, although when the suspension is in good shape and the bike is setup well, the 1200 can give notice to the sportier bikes.

Just a few thoughts on your question.

Good Luck. Cheers
The 83 is linked mine is but the 82 and earlier are not 14mm piston on the rear master on 82 16mm on the 83 8-)

bbroj
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by bbroj » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:03 pm

I know this is a bit of an old thread, but I figured I'd add here rather than start something new. I have an 84 GL1200 A that I am unhappy with the front brake performance. I am aware of the linked system and I am asking about strictly the handlebar lever operated left rotor only. The master cylinder has been replaced with a larger diameter E-bay unit, the line is new stainless steel and the caliper has been rebuilt, twice. I have removed the rotor (both, while I was at it) and removed the glazing or "roughed them up" with a biscuit grinder. The pads were different from side to side when I got it, it was picked up from a guy who works on Wings in his spare time, I have no idea of his skill or competence, but it seems reasonable. The pads on one side were new due to a caliper leak, I swapped them from side to side with no change. The lever feel is rock solid, it just seems that there is lacking friction between the rotor and pads, it just doesn't feel like it wants to stop. It's so bad, in fact, that I have to consciously squeeze the lever harder at a stop before taking my foot off the rear lever to put my foot down.

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DenverWinger
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by DenverWinger » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:38 pm

The larger diameter M/C is probably at least part of your problem, a larger diameter M/C is meant to operate multiple caliper pistons, and you won't get the "leverage" on the brake lever if that large M/C is only pushing to a single caliper piston.

It will most likely work the front brakes well if you link up both calipers, but then with the loss of the front brake on the existing linked system you will then have the same problem with the rear brake M/C being too big for a single brake piston.
They say 98% of all Hardleys ever made are still on the road..... The other 2% made it home. :lol:
(I stole this from somebody on another GW site...) :roll:

bbroj
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by bbroj » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:19 am

Interesting, thanks for the reply. It never occurred to me that a larger diameter M/C could be a deterrent to function. While I agree that I don't get much travel in the lever, and your explanation makes perfect sense in that regard, it still seems as though I would get the sensation of stopping regardless of lever travel as long as all of the mechanicals and fluid mechanics were working. I should get more fluid with less travel on the lever, correct? I thought, if anything, it would cause that single front disc to feel quicker to grab. Thanks again.

bbroj
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by bbroj » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:28 am

Another, sort of related question. Has anyone ever linked the two front calipers together and NOT disabled the link to the rear system? If it's not already part of the system, a check valve would be needed to prevent the front lever from activating the rear disc. The rear pedal would become less effective having to operate 3 calipers, that seems to be what most folks are looking for. It seems like less hardware would be needed, a line and banjo bolts to tie the front calipers together and the previously mentioned check valve, but it would clearly take some experimentation and I'm not sure how effective, if at all, the rear lever would end up being.

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Rednaxs60
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by Rednaxs60 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:58 am

We do a lot of things that cannot be construed as changing the design and certification of our bikes. We also install and use our bikes with items that could be construed as circumventing the design and certification of our bikes such as using a CT on the rear, towing trailers and exceeding the GVW (all bikes have this), non of which are condoned by an OEM, and possibly some insurance jurisdictions.

I have used and intend to use a CT on my bike(s), but do not want to tow a trailer, personal preference. We do many things and accept the responsibility that goes with these decisions.

I have seen the use of "normal brakes" used in conjunction with linked brake systems. Normal brakes are what are installed on the bike. Using this term would imply that linked brakes are abnormal, and this is far from the truth. I would submit that changing the braking system on a bike to suit a personal preference should be followed with a talk to your insurance agent to make sure you will still be covered should you have an accident. Insurance companies are always looking for ways to keep money in its pockets, not yours.

A friend who has a Triumph RIII had a bolt come out of the shifting mechanism inside the engine. No damage, but had an expensive bill coming for the repair. He contacted Triumph Canada and UK and expressed his displeasure considering that when he researched this issue, it is not an isolated incident. He did get a call from Triumph Canada who is picking up half the labour costs, but before Triumph committed he was asked if he had a CT installed, to which he answered yes. Triumph Canada was not happy with this but still committed. He was also asked if he towed a trailer, and he does not, but was informed that if he had, there would be no compensation from Triumph. Triumph Canada rep informed my friend that the extra load on the bike from using the wrong tire was not what the bike was designed for.

This may be correct or not, but OEMs are similar to insurance companies and do not part with money freely.

I'm all for optimizing our bikes for the use we have them for, and do not like to part with money needlessly as well, hence the use of a CT for longevity. I have mentioned in a previous post that the front calipers are different sizes as well.

Not for or against any change, or modification, just like to look at all the possible issues that one might encounter.

Let us know how you make out. Look forward to your resolution of this issue.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

JamesA
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by JamesA » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:40 pm

I had a Guzzi with linked brakes. I thought about un-linking them after falling in loose gravel situations a couple of times while braking, as the front wheel lost traction with only the foot pedal being activated. I can understand the poster's thoughts about this project. Happily, I sold the bike when I bought the Ducati, so the issue went away with the bike.

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tamathumper
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by tamathumper » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:30 pm

Regarding the stainless brake (and clutch) lines, that was a popular "upgrade" on the Porsche 968's of the 92-95 vintage.

Shortly after upgrading an owner would often experience a slave cylinder failure shortly thereafter, and we never knew what the issue was other than speculating the stainless lines had less "give" and transferred more force to the vintage seals in the slave cylinders.

Has only experienced similar failures on the Goldwings?
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by Wolfie666 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:56 pm

I know this is a somewhat old thread, but if the original poster want's an actual answer to his question , here it is...
It's quite easy to delink the GL's system,
need to remove the rear master, get a M3x.5 tap and put some grease on it, then thread the little insert that is in the masters two ports.
Also need to do the same to the rear caliper.
I used a carb slide hammer, but you can wiggle it out as well...
Insert a M3x.5 machine screw into the slide hammer and thread it into the insert, and pop the insert out.
You now have a standard 10mm Banjo Bolt setup.
Then you need to get a front caliper from ebay, and remove the bottom plug, so you can insert it into the front line port.
THEN... all ya have to do is run a SS brale line for the back, and get a 5/8 front master...









bbroj
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Re: removing linked brake system

Post by bbroj » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:59 am

Tamathumper, I do not have many miles on my bike since changing to a SS front brake line, but I have had no issues with the caliper since doing so.



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