Aftermarket starter relay/solenoid


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dkdc12
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Motorcycle: '85 INTERSTATE

Aftermarket starter relay/solenoid

Post by dkdc12 » Fri May 05, 2017 8:35 pm



Hey guys, I went to install an afmkt starter relay. It looked a little different but close, it had the two main post and the four blade connector( of which only three are active). But when I reconnected the battery the clutch diode went up in smoke. Obviously something is back wards. Blades or post? A while back when I installed the tail light pig tail conversion the pins had to be relocated within the 5/6 place pin connector at the tail light housing. Is there something like this going on with this relay/solenoid? Also can an O.E. starter relay be bought and forgo the aftermarket headache? Thanks for any info. The bike is an '85 Interstate.


JEAN@stevie

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dkdc12
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Re: Aftermarket starter relay/solenoid

Post by dkdc12 » Fri May 05, 2017 8:46 pm

On the previous question posted about starter relays disregard the statement about only three blade connectors being used.
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Rednaxs60
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
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Re: Aftermarket starter relay/solenoid

Post by Rednaxs60 » Sat May 06, 2017 12:56 pm

Just about all the Honda GWs have the same wiring and wire colour code for the starter solenoid. Here is a picture for you:


Where it shows the battery and starter connection, you should see a"B" for battery and "S" for starter at these terminals.

When you have the battery and starter connected to the starter solenoid, take a multimeter and check the power at the 4 pins. You should find two of them live and two that have no power. Connect the red wire and red/white striped wire to the two pins that are live. Connect the other two wires, yellow/red striped and green/red striped to the other two.

The four wires are:

Red wire - from starter solenoid to ignition switch
Red/white striped wire - to starter solenoid from regulator/rectifier for charging
Yellow/rd striped wire - from start switch to energize internal coil to send power to starter
Green/red striped wire - out to ground from starter solenoid. Completes circuit for starter. Generally goes to ground through a clutch diode so you don't have to start the bike by pulling in the clutch lever.

To test your circuits, you can do the following:

The ignition switch provides power to both the engine stop switch and start switch from the same wire. To test whether the start switch has power, disconnect the yellow/red striped wire from the starter solenoid and put a multimeter on the yellow/red striped wire and push the start switch with the ignition on. There should be 12 VDC. If not you may have a switch problem. If you do have 12 VDC, reconnect the yellow/red striped wire to the starter solenoid. Disconnect the green/red striped wire from the starter solenoid. Connect a multimeter to the pin that the green/red striped wire was on, with the ignition switch on push the start switch - there should be 12 VDC through the starter solenoid. If this is good, reconnect the green/red striped wire to the starter solenoid. You could also connect a new ground wire to the starter solenoid in place of the green/red striped wire and test the circuit as well. If this works, there may be an issue with the green/red striped wire to ground.

To make sure the wiring is good coming from the ignition switch, look at the coils and test the black/white striped wire that is connected to the coil. With the ignition switch on there should be 12 VDC on this wire, no voltage when the key is off.

Your regulator/rectifier will probably have two red/white striped wires and only one at the starter solenoid. These two wires are joined together just after the wires enter the wiring harness. The same with the two green ground wires (if there are two).

This picture depicts how the starter solenoid internal coil works to get the engine started.


The wire from the start button is the yellow/red striped wire you have connected to the starter solenoid. It goes to the starter solenoid internal coil. The wire from the internal coil going to ground is the green/red striped wire that is attached to your starter solenoid. When power is supplied to the coil the internal starter solenoid switch closes and power is supplied from the battery to the starter. Doesn't matter what solenoid you use the principle is all the same.

The red/white striped wire in your pictures is the charging wire from the regulator/rectifier and should be connected to one of the starter solenoid terminals closest to the fuse as in my schematic. When the bike is running, this wire should be live and the voltage should vary depending on the bike rpm. If it does not you can run a new (I'd use 10 gauge wire) from the regulator/rectifier directly to the starter solenoid for charging.

Another check for this wire is to disconnect the connector at the regulator/rectifier. Check the voltage on the red/white wire and there may be battery voltage on it even though it is not connected at the starter solenoid (bike does not have to be started). If you have voltage on this wire, what Honda has done is spliced the red and red/white striped wires together in the wire harness.

The starter circuit on your bike should be similar to my '85 LTD. When starting the bike, power goes to the starter solenoid from the start switch (yellow/red striped wire) to energize the internal starter solenoid coil to provide power to the starter. The internal coil is grounded two ways, through the clutch diode, or through the clutch switch at the clutch lever. Here is a picture that shows the routing for my bike, but yours will be similar:


In this schematic you can follow the yellow/red striped wire from the start switch to the starter solenoid, and then the green/red striped wire to ground through either the clutch diode or the clutch lever switch.

To check the clutch diode, it should be marked with a positive and a negative pin. With a multimeter, with the positive probe on the positive pin of the diode and the negative probe on the negative pin of the diode there should be continuity. Reversing the multimeter probes, there should be no continuity.

To check the clutch switch with the wires connected:

Clutch applied (lever out): no continuity (no ground circuit)
Clutch released (lever pulled in to bar): continuity (power through ground circuit)

If you remove the clutch switch, check orientation as there may be a small protrusion that must point towards the handlebar when installed.

Switching the yellow/red striped and green/red striped wires with the red and red/white striped wires on the starter solenoid. There should be no issue with the clutch switch as it will not put power to ground unless you have the lever pulled in to disengage the clutch; however, the clutch diode may be fried.

Check the engine stop switch as well. There should be power going to and through it as it is in the start circuit before the start switch.

As has been mentioned, you need a schematic for your bike. Found one with a web search that lead me to this thread by WingAdmin - viewtopic.php?t=20434

I would not bypass the clutch diode because it allows you to start the bike in neutral without using the clutch lever.

Just a few thoughts and a long post, hope it helps.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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dkdc12
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Re: Aftermarket starter relay/solenoid

Post by dkdc12 » Sun May 07, 2017 5:43 pm

Thanks Rednaxs60.
I went back and double checked the wires. The main wires to the battery and starter were correct ;but, the four blade connector part only has three leads connected the fourth cubbyhole has no blade. It's probably the ground. The bike has ran this way for 45,000 miles. I never noticed it until I went to change out the relay/solenoid. I was changing some old parts out and resoldering some connections just to be on the safe side. I put the old selonoid back on replaced the "smoked" clutch diode reconnected the battery and everything fine. I suppose I could have put the new four blade connector on 180 degrees off. Where as the OE is formed to go on one only. Where else could the relay be grounded though? Again thanks.
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Rednaxs60
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Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
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Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: Aftermarket starter relay/solenoid

Post by Rednaxs60 » Sun May 07, 2017 7:20 pm

When I put a new aftermarket starter solenoid on, the OEM connector did not fit so I removed it and put in new wires with solderless connectors. Still working fine after 16 months.

What are the wire colours that are in the connector? From what you are saying I surmise that there is a red, Y/R, and G/R wire in the starter solenoid connector. If this is so then you do not have an issue. What the PO has probably done is eliminate the R/W wire from the starter solenoid as it is bonded to the red wire going to the ignition switch. Power will go to the bike system(s)/circuits and to the battery to charge. If this is the case then the 30 amp fuse in the starter solenoid is redundant.

The relay is only grounded (green/red striped wire)for the internal coil that energizes the switch allowing power to flow to the starter. This wire goes out to the ground through the clutch diode.

The other ground to start the bike is through the clutch switch, and the clutch lever must be pulled into the bar to start the bike. If you have to do this on your GW it is an indication that the clutch diode is fried (future reference).

Not much else to mention. Good luck.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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dkdc12
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Re: Aftermarket starter relay/solenoid

Post by dkdc12 » Sun May 07, 2017 8:06 pm

OK THANKS A BUNCH. I guess I'll use the OE until it goes then rewire for the aftermarket.
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inkko
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Re: Aftermarket starter relay/solenoid

Post by inkko » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:47 am

I use China starter relay and it works perfect....price 6.40 us dollar...😃


GL1200 Aspencade -87
Interstae -84

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