waterless antifreeze


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targhee dick
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waterless antifreeze

Post by targhee dick » Wed May 17, 2017 9:49 pm



Has anyone heard of or used Evans Waterless Antifreeze? It is supposed to bring the temperature up to over three hundred versus one twelve. Just curious.



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ekvh
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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by ekvh » Thu May 18, 2017 8:03 am

I've read the same. Actual cylinder head temps went up quite a bit. I googled it and the info is from a competitor, but it seems like it's legit. Lots of automotive folks post the same. It has potential for jelling down the road too.

targhee dick
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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by targhee dick » Thu May 18, 2017 10:52 am

Thanks EKVH, I was wondering if anyone else used it. I ran into guy who uses it, and he said it works fine. Did not mention about the jelling though. I have too much money invested in my bike, to experiment with something I am not sure of. Thanks for the information.

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by MikeB » Thu May 18, 2017 12:07 pm

targhee **** wrote:...I have too much money invested in my bike, to experiment with something I am not sure of. Thanks for the information.
You and me both.
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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by harvey01 » Thu May 18, 2017 4:16 pm

MikeB wrote:
targhee **** wrote:...I have too much money invested in my bike, to experiment with something I am not sure of. Thanks for the information.
You and me both.
Me too! Flush Honda Coolant out every few years and replace!
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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by raven41951 » Wed May 31, 2017 1:26 pm

I am not fluent with Evans coolant, but I did google it to investigate it. It appears they have replaced the water content of typical antifreeze with propylene glycol, which makes it "antifreeze" by lowering the freezing temperature of the solution (water/propylene-glycol). It also raises the boiling point.

It stands to reason that replacing more (or 97%) of the water with propylene glycol would make it more efficient. Antifreeze also contains rust inhibitors that need to be there because of the water content. So again, it stands to reason the eliminating the water will eliminate or at lease greatly reduce the amount of corrosion in the cooling system.

There is also reduced system pressure. Why? Because the Evans coolant has a high boiling point and lower freezing point it does not expand and contract like water does. Nor does it vaporize like water does, which is what creates the pressure build up in the existing systems.

So why use it? Ask someone you know who races or has some high performance equipment!

This is not meant to be a scientific analysis by any means, just to get the ball rolling on some actual empirical data collection in the forum to see how this stuff really performs in our wings. I for one am willing to try it.

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by Old Wing Man » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:58 am

"It stands to reason that replacing more (or 97%) of the water with propylene glycol would make it more efficient."

Ethylene glycol for sure (haven't looked up the propylene glycol specs)needs water to make it more freeze resistant. IIRC, pure antifreeze will freeze at a much higher temp. than antifreeze/water mixture. As for boiling point, pure might be better but then you wont have the lower freeze protection of a water mixture.

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by raven41951 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:49 pm

Here is some specs from DOW:
Vapor Pressure And Boiling Point
All liquids form vapors which exert pressure characteristic of the materials. The pressure exerted by these vapors in the presence of the liquid is called the vapor pressure. The vapor pressure increases with temperature, as shown by Figures 6 and 7. The boiling point of a liquid is the temperature at which its vapor pressure is equal to the external pressure on the surface of the liquid. When the liquid is heated in an open vessel, it will boil when its vapor pressure is equal to the atmospheric pressure. The normal boiling point is defined as the temperature at which a liquid boils at 760 mm Hg. (In Figures 6 and 7, bold lines have been drawn across the curves at 760 mm.) The normal boiling points of each of the glycols are the points at which the glycol vapor-pressure curves cross these lines.

Glycols have lower vapor pressures than water and their boiling points are above the boiling point of water. If the external pressure is reduced, glycols will boil at lower temperatures, as shown in the following Figures, where the vapor pressures of glycols are equal to the reduced external pressure.

The following table lists the boiling points of water and glycols when the external pressure is reduced to 50 mm Hg.
Glycols are considered high boiling point liquids because of their low vapor pressure compared to that of water at any given temperature. It is interesting to note that at 68°F (20°C) the vapor pressure of water is more than 100 times as great as that of propylene glycol, the most volatile of the glycols listed. This low volatility of glycols lessens their tendency to evaporate and has led to their use as plasticizers, “permanent” antifreeze agents, solvent vehicles, hygroscopic agents, and ingredients of brake fluids.

Boiling Points at 50mm Hg
Water 100.6°F 38.1°C
Propylene Glycol 240.6°F 115.9°C
Dipropylene Glycol 306.5°F 152.5°C
Tripropylene Glycol 358.9°F 181.6°C

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLite ... age=GetDoc

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by minimac » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:05 am

Has anyone actually tried this yet? I understand it raise the boiling point,thus reducing vapors and gases, but the question I have is does it actually help the bike run cooler? While a higher boiling point may be advantageous, there are other factors affected by temperature to consider, such as gaskets, hoses, oil temperature, engine/ring wear etc. I'm familiar with Redline Waterwetter and have used it very successfully in the past. I never studied its composition, but it did help to run a bit cooler.

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by tinwacker » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:23 am

I have a 2004 GL 1800 and have had Evans Coolant in it for 300 Thousand miles Yes it will run hotter in certain condition's Like a long High speed run BUT The reason it is getting hotter is the Evans coolant is not scalding away from the hottest parts of the motor like reg anti freeze does. When I first installed it I was in Nebraska on the big road running at speed limit and it started to rise, I drop 5 MPG and it went back to normal I talk to Evans and they explained it as I have mentioned, Also never heard of a jelling issue My bike has 331 thousand on it and has never been apart

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by Corkster52 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:10 am

This is a very interesting topic and I'm looking forward to seeing more posts on this topic :!:

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by tinwacker » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:48 am

I have had Evans coolant in my 2004 for years , The bike has 333 thousand miles on it Have not had any issues with the cooling system at all Yes the temp will rise at high speeds and this is because the coolant is taking the heat from the heads like regular anti freeze can't do, The reg anti freeze scalds away from the hot head there for it's not getting hotter because it's not doing it's job where as the Evans is taking that heat in the fluid and away from the heads Just went thru my records and I replaced coolant with Evans Jan 2006 with 77 thousand mile

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by ct1500 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:05 am

tinwacker wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:48 am
Yes the temp will rise at high speeds and this is because the coolant is taking the heat from the heads like regular anti freeze can't do, The reg anti freeze scalds away from the hot head there for it's not getting hotter because it's not doing it's job where as the Evans is taking that heat in the fluid and away from the heads
Huh???
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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by dingdong » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:53 am

ct1500 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:05 am
tinwacker wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:48 am
Yes the temp will rise at high speeds and this is because the coolant is taking the heat from the heads like regular anti freeze can't do, The reg anti freeze scalds away from the hot head there for it's not getting hotter because it's not doing it's job where as the Evans is taking that heat in the fluid and away from the heads
Huh???
Double Huh????
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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by tinwacker » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:22 pm

If you are serious about your double huh I will take the time to explain it to you if your kidding that's ok too
but!!!!!!!

You reply and I will explain what I think

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by dingdong » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:20 am

dingdong wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:53 am
ct1500 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:05 am
tinwacker wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:48 am
Yes the temp will rise at high speeds and this is because the coolant is taking the heat from the heads like regular anti freeze can't do, The reg anti freeze scalds away from the hot head there for it's not getting hotter because it's not doing it's job where as the Evans is taking that heat in the fluid and away from the heads
Huh???
Double Huh????
???
Tom

John F. Kennedy would be impeached by todays liberal Democratic socialist party.

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by tinwacker » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:44 am

As far as I understand it When you are riding at speed the heads get real hot, The reg anti-freeze will scald away from the hot parts, As if you have ever heated a piece of metal and cooled it off with water, The water will scald away from the heat causing bubbles , When this happens now the anti freeze is not able to take the heat away from the heads and the heads are getting hotter but the coolant is not showing the rise in temp cause at the heads the anti freeze is not doing it's job of absorbing the heat Then the temp that is showing on the gauge is not showing how hot the heads are getting because the heat is not being transferred to the anti-freeze AS with the Evans coolant it will absorb the heat and there for the temp will raise at the gauge,cause it's taking the heat away from the heads ( cooling them) I was coming crossed the big road in Nebraska few years ago and it was as hot as it ever gets in Florida, The speed limit was 75 I think I was doing about 80 for a long period and the temp was starting to rise, I back down 5 MPG and it went to normal I hope this helps you understand, I have had discussion with the people at Evans about this very subject and they agreed with what I just wrote Maybe not word for word but in general As far as Jelling , I have never head any input about that , Mine has been in for lots of miles and lots of years and not one problem I sure hope this helps Please advise

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by 823JIM » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:12 pm

Some more information to read thru on the subject:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/top ... ne+Coolant
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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by raven41951 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:15 pm

Its been a while since I actually used my Chemistry knowledge but here goes.

First, water boils at 212 F and freezes at 32 F right? OK. Adding antifreeze RAISES the boiling point and lowers the freezing point right? For this conversation we will ignore the freezing part as it is not pertinent.

Next, have you ever run your hand under hot water? Hurts don't it? That water is (usually) less than 120 F. Ever run it over the steam from a boiling kettle? Well that steam is over 220F but it doesn't seem to feel as hot as the liquid water. Right away at least.

Liquid water has more contact with your skin than steam (a whole bunch of molecules shoulder to shoulder vs spread an arms-length apart); therefore temperature transfers more effectively thus the cooler liquid water may seem hotter than the steam.

Evans coolant boils at 375 F. Water/antifreeze mixture boils at about 240 F. Therefore, when the water jacket sidewall exceeds the boiling point of the mixture, it (the mixture) turns to steam creating a wall of gaseous mixture (steam) between the wall and the liquid coolant. As the steam transfers heat less efficiently than the liquid, the coolant becomes less effective at doing its job. The liquid coolant is actually removing heat from the steam coolant and not the metal wall thus is may seem to run at a lower temperature.

Meanwhile, the (100%) propylene glycol Evans coolant maintains its liquid phase thus removing heat from the water jacket more effectively as evidenced by the fact that is actually hotter than the water/antifreeze mixture under the same conditions. *** I am not sure of the exact temperature of the wall of the cooling channel but with a boiling point of 375 it should be more than enough to maintain the liquid phase. I also left out pressure on purpose.

Suffice to say that the Evans coolant expands less than the water/A-F mixture thus runs a lower pressure. I have also left out the additives used in A-F as that has been covered previously.

I hope this helps. I've tried to keep it as simple as possible.

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by Asphaltmaniac » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:52 am

I'm not 100% on this but I think if you've made the conversion and have a coolant leak away from home its not possible to just add regular antifreeze or water :?:

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by raven41951 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:03 am

Correct. Adding anything with water in it will negate its efficiency.

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by Asphaltmaniac » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:45 am

raven41951 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:03 am
Correct. Adding anything with water in it will negate its efficiency.
What I was told didn't sound as benign as that. Too use this stuff there is a procedure to remove all water/coolant from the system.
And its not possible to put any water in after that. So I like the idea of going water less but if away from home and a leak occurs.
Hmmmmmmmm :?:

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by Scooter363y » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:58 am

If you want to extract more heat out of your engine with regular anti freeze use a product called water wetter. It lowers the service tension (according to the manufacturer) letting the water 💦 molecules fully contact the metal parts and carry away heat. This also meant that the radiator will transfer heat out of the coolant.
Some people think that this product makes the engine run hotter. Because there is more heat coming out of the radiator and the coolant temp gauge will rise. That is only because it is taking the heat from the engine.
I used exhaust temp sensor to monitor temps and found that this was lower.

Just one more question: how do you back it down 5 mpg?

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by tinwacker » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:53 pm

I also had the concern of if I was away from home and needed some coolant, The folks at Evans ask for a sample of the fluid after it was in the bike for a while to see how much water was in it, They told me around 10 % would be fine, Mine tested good when I send the sample BUT I bought another gal, Drained it all out and added the new gal, I carry a Coleman fuel container with the Evan coolant in it with me in case the need arises So far it has not but the safety feeling is there also I then am sure the mixture is way less the 10% water I also have converted a couple other bikes and I use the old coolant first, Run it till it's hot let it sit a little drain it and then fill it with the new coolant, So far everybody is happy with the results Sure it's more work but what do us old guys do but take things apart and try to fix them

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Re: waterless antifreeze

Post by Asphaltmaniac » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:11 pm

tinwacker wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:53 pm
I also had the concern of if I was away from home and needed some coolant, The folks at Evans ask for a sample of the fluid after it was in the bike for a while to see how much water was in it, They told me around 10 % would be fine, Mine tested good when I send the sample BUT I bought another gal, Drained it all out and added the new gal, I carry a Coleman fuel container with the Evan coolant in it with me in case the need arises So far it has not but the safety feeling is there also I then am sure the mixture is way less the 10% water I also have converted a couple other bikes and I use the old coolant first, Run it till it's hot let it sit a little drain it and then fill it with the new coolant, So far everybody is happy with the results Sure it's more work but what do us old guys do but take things apart and try to fix them
Please excuse me I'm not being flippant or argumentative.
On the Evans website it says "all" must be removed...Not 95% nor 90% it says all.
Its working for you and probably many others for sure. But I try to be low
tech as much as possible so will stick with old school water/antifreeze. :D



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