This could be a new one. Short to ground.


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1anderlikj
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This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by 1anderlikj » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:44 pm



My alternator & battery are new, but the alternator seems to be dumping everything to ground, 12.2V. Bike runs great for about 8 miles until the battery dies. Remote the alternator to a different battery and it charges at 13-15 volts, increasing with RPM. No recent maintenance activity, just died out of the blue. Occasionally get enough continuity between positive & ground (with the key off) to make my multimeter beep. Other times, a lot of resistance.

Notes: cruise button sticks in depressed position, kill switch at handlebar is inoperative, both have been like that for a long time.

I took off a ton of plastic so far, nothing seems chafed, burned, or chewed, but I think something built a nest on the left head.



DaveO430
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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by DaveO430 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:30 am

Did you check the dogbone fuse next to the battery?

1anderlikj
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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by 1anderlikj » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:41 am

All fuses are good. A blown fuse would give me an open circuit, anyway. This seems to be a dead short, making the alternator work overtime but not produce anything. Pulled each fuse on the left fusebox with no change in multimeter readings.

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RBGERSON
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had every year from 75 to 83

Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by RBGERSON » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:21 am

Bad regulator?? dumping all charge??
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

1anderlikj
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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by 1anderlikj » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:48 pm

I am no expert, but it seems when I did the test on the remote battery, it should have done the same thing. But it charged at 14+ volts.

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ct1500
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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by ct1500 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:14 pm

1anderlikj wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:44 pm
My alternator & battery are new, but the alternator seems to be dumping everything to ground, 12.2V. Bike runs great for about 8 miles until the battery dies. Remote the alternator to a different battery and it charges at 13-15 volts, increasing with RPM. No recent maintenance activity, just died out of the blue. Occasionally get enough continuity between positive & ground (with the key off) to make my multimeter beep. Other times, a lot of resistance..
Just connecting an alternators output wire to a remote battery is no valid test as it is not being called upon to produce any significant current without a test load connected to that battery. Connecting an ohm meter between the output stud and ground is again no valid test as you are measuring with diodes of the stator and electronics of the regulator in the circuit.

A short to ground of the charge wire would quickly burn out an alternator not to mention frying the wire. You likely have a defective alternator.
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1anderlikj
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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by 1anderlikj » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:18 pm

I don't know...I had the new alternator tested at a rebuild shop after it didn't work. Put in the bike, same problem. The donor/remote battery was still in the vehicle but connected through jumper cables. Surely the alternator isn't grounded to itself?

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ct1500
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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by ct1500 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:53 am

15V? Something going on there as it should not go that high. Did the alternator shop put a load on the alternator? They should have told you it is charging X amps @ X voltage.
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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by DaveO430 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:55 am

1anderlikj wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:48 pm
I am no expert, but it seems when I did the test on the remote battery, it should have done the same thing. But it charged at 14+ volts.
If this "remote" battery is connected directly to the battery cables it seems to me your battery is the problem, new or not.

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by thompsoj22 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:07 pm

id question a "dead short" or current draw as your problem. Depleting a fully charged battery in 8 miles is going to smoke check something, seriously you would smell it, id bet on the battery, a fully charged battery with no charge current would probably run for 40 miles. load test the battery. jmo

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by 1anderlikj » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:12 am

I think I will see what the battery does in my SUV. It should start it, and run long enough for at least a test. But I have my doubts; it was on the charger in the shop after it went dead the first time, charged fine in 12 hours (overnight). I got ANOTHER alternator when I thought the first new one was bad, just arrived. We'll see what happens this week.

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by hugger-4641 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:48 am

I can disconnect my alternator and even with all my lights on I can go 40 miles or more before the battery is drained enought to kill the bike. Before I installed a volt meter, my first clue that my battery was going dead was my radio going out, then power loss. Sounds like you have a battery issue.

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by 1anderlikj » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:16 pm

What if the output wire to the battery and the exciter wire are somehow shorted to each other, either directly, through the frame, or through some (melted) component? That could cause the alternator to think it needs to charge and shut off at the same time, right? It did get really hot when I ran it for a couple minutes.

Next question: should there be direct continuity between those two circuits, whether with the key on or off, running/not running?

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by DaveO430 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:42 pm

1anderlikj wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:16 pm
What if the output wire to the battery and the exciter wire are somehow shorted to each other, either directly, through the frame, or through some (melted) component? That could cause the alternator to think it needs to charge and shut off at the same time, right? It did get really hot when I ran it for a couple minutes.

Next question: should there be direct continuity between those two circuits, whether with the key on or off, running/not running?
If those wires shorted together it should charge normally but the alternator would stay energized when the engine was stopped and drain the battery PDQ. Shorted to the frame would cause melted wires. Do those wires have continuity when disconnected from the alternator?

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by 1anderlikj » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:28 am

So far I have eliminated the battery. Used it to start my Trailblazer after it had already started the bike a few times, and checked my SUV's alternator output, 13.8 V, +/-. Just to be sure, I had Auto Zone test it. 71% charged, good battery. Still doing tests suggested.
Update: pulled the dog bone fuse, battery disconnected. There is continuity between the top (battery post) and frame when I turn the key on. This should never happen, right?
Another update: the starter has continuity between the positive terminal and the frame. Battery is still out, key on, key off, starter button depressed, starter button released. Bad starter causing feedback to the voltage regulator circuit?
Another update: with the key on, there is a short in the sensor wire to ground through the 10A accessory circuit, which is probably also grounded, haven't checked. Performed wiggle test and so far I can't get my multimeter to shut up. Behind the headlight maybe, or is the starter part of the accessory circuit? Just thinking out loud here....

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by DaveO430 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:06 pm

1anderlikj wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:28 am

Update: pulled the dog bone fuse, battery disconnected. There is continuity between the top (battery post) and frame when I turn the key on. This should never happen, right?
Another update: the starter has continuity between the positive terminal and the frame. Battery is still out, key on, key off, starter button depressed, starter button released. Bad starter causing feedback to the voltage regulator circuit?
Yes there will be continuity between + & the frame, yes there will be continuity between the starter post and the frame. If there was no continuity to ground nothing would work.

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by 1anderlikj » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:35 pm

I did an update to my previous post which was responded to by Dave0430. How can I bypass my grounded exciter circuit, and is it even advisable without finding out why it grounded in the first place?

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by DaveO430 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:23 pm

How have you determined the exciter circuit is grounded? You can't test it with an ohm meter without completely isolating it from the rest of the system. Does it have 12v disconnected from the alternator & with the key on or is blowing the ignition fuse?

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by 1anderlikj » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:36 pm

I took the battery out, took the alternator out, dogbone fuse removed, and still have continuity between the exciter circuit/positive battery cable and the ground. Here's a new piece of info: I found the blue wire with the black stripe (headlight, according to the label in the cover) behind the relay box has been hot, and the connections are crusty. I'm leaning toward a resistance problem, and a melted spot(s) inside the wiring harness. I disconnected all the connecters to the fairing area and the problem persists, so it's not a bulb filament completing the circuit. One test gave me continuity between the blu/blk wire and ground, which I couldn't replicate, maybe due to harness manipulation? I'm halfway tempted to just part the thing out unless I can find the bad spot AND blame the issue on a specific event, such as resistance. It might have gotten wet once in a connector, who knows?

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by DaveO430 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:02 am

Anyone else want to give this a shot, I think we are trying to communicate in different languages?

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Re: This could be a new one. Short to ground.

Post by 1anderlikj » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:46 am

I actually took a day off from work to get as far as I did yesterday, and used up the battery in my new multimeter running tests until I ran out of daylight. I will try installing the battery and run the tests as you describe them, then if I get the results I expect, start cutting open the wiring harness wrap. I noticed one solenoid is in the closed position; to the rear of the battery next to the rear master cylinder. I assume it is the reverse solenoid and only opens to disengage the mechanism until reversing is complete, but I can't find any troubleshooting chain that talks about it. If it's a factor, please let me know.

If there's another test I should try or specific method/procedure, I will attempt, until I run out of time. If I can't solve it in one more day of effort, I've exceeded the monetary value of the bike as far as the labor hours, batteries and alternators I've invested. I have no sentimental connection to the bike other than it's my first one; I can buy another one just like it, part out this one, take what's left to the recycling yard, and move on to my kitchen countertops that have been pushed back 2 weeks.

As far as I am concerned, the 1500 Goldwing is where it's at, more-so than the 1800. They should have updated the cassette player to digital and left the rest alone, just my opinion.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far.



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