Calling it a night


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WingAdmin
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Calling it a night

Post by WingAdmin » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:02 pm



Grrrrr...

I was in the process of rebuilding a front brake master cylinder tonight, and as I was walking the seal up and over the piston into its groove...it SNAPPED. I've never had one do that before.

So that's a $25 rebuild kit in the trash, and now I have to wait a week to get another one. Of course they don't sell just the seals on their own, I have to order a whole new kit.

The garage was turning blue...... :evil:



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Ravyn
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Re: Calling it a night

Post by Ravyn » Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:35 pm

hehehe, easy now wingadmin...we all don't want ya to go an have a coronary. ;)

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by Aussie81Interstate » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:31 am

Scott,

Simple recommendation - hindsight is also wonderful. Before you install the next one - drop it in a cup of hot water and leave it for a few minutes - fish it out- then install it - the heat will make the seal a little bit more supple - a few drops of brake fluid on the piston will also aid installation.

But - sorry to hear you had a "blue" moment - I think we all get them from time to time - mine are quite frequent when I stuff things up - and there is no one else to blame (not within earshot anyway).

cheers

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by brettchallenger » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:53 am

there is no one else to blame (not within earshot anyway).
There is always someone to blame! I blame the French.
Never trust a nation whose armed forces goose-step

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by WingAdmin » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:36 pm

Aussie81Interstate wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:31 am
Scott,

Simple recommendation - hindsight is also wonderful. Before you install the next one - drop it in a cup of hot water and leave it for a few minutes - fish it out- then install it - the heat will make the seal a little bit more supple - a few drops of brake fluid on the piston will also aid installation.

But - sorry to hear you had a "blue" moment - I think we all get them from time to time - mine are quite frequent when I stuff things up - and there is no one else to blame (not within earshot anyway).

cheers
I always lubricate with brake fluid, but I came to the same conclusion as you - I was doing this while sitting in my cold garage, my mistake was not warming the thing up first. I should have clued in when it was so much harder to get the thing on than it usually is.

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by M61A1MECH » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:09 pm

I would expect any good auto parts store or hydraulic parts supply house would have O-Rings in stock and should be able to match one up, need to measure the width and match up OD and ID, just make sure to tell them it being used in brake fluid so they can select a proper material.
Steve K
Edgewater, FL

And the Lord said. "Thou shalt have dominion over all of the animals, except of course the cat."

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by WingAdmin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:12 pm

M61A1MECH wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:09 pm
I would expect any good auto parts store or hydraulic parts supply house would have O-Rings in stock and should be able to match one up, need to measure the width and match up OD and ID, just make sure to tell them it being used in brake fluid so they can select a proper material.
It's not an O-ring, unfortunately. It's a very specific seal made for this application: It is closed on one side, open on the other, and the outer edge is chamfered, so one side is smaller than the other. This makes it act as a pump inside the chamber when you pull the lever.

You can see one installed on a GL1100 piston here:

Image

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by Sidcar » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:30 pm

Sod's Law strikes again. As a life long sufferer you have my sympathies.

Sid.

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by M61A1MECH » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:20 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:12 pm
M61A1MECH wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:09 pm
I would expect any good auto parts store or hydraulic parts supply house would have O-Rings in stock and should be able to match one up, need to measure the width and match up OD and ID, just make sure to tell them it being used in brake fluid so they can select a proper material.
It's not an O-ring, unfortunately. It's a very specific seal made for this application: It is closed on one side, open on the other, and the outer edge is chamfered, so one side is smaller than the other. This makes it act as a pump inside the chamber when you pull the lever.

You can see one installed on a GL1100 piston here:

Image
That sounds like and looks like what is called a lip seal, most O-ring manufacturers like Parker and Apple make them, I doubt it is special size just for Honda, designers and engineers normally design hardware around existing seal designs, for the price of the rebuild kit, it worth a look see.
Steve K
Edgewater, FL

And the Lord said. "Thou shalt have dominion over all of the animals, except of course the cat."

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by WingAdmin » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:35 pm

M61A1MECH wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:20 pm
That sounds like and looks like what is called a lip seal, most O-ring manufacturers like Parker and Apple make them, I doubt it is special size just for Honda, designers and engineers normally design hardware around existing seal designs, for the price of the rebuild kit, it worth a look see.
That's exactly right. But finding the right diameter, inner diameter, thickness, chamfer angle, material...I don't have the specs, and I wouldn't want to take the measurements off the old worn one (or the new, broken one).

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by Sidcar » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:45 am

Are there no part numbers on the seal for you to google?
I was trying to find a seal kit for a Maggura master cyl' and, very usefully, the seals had part numbers on them.

Sid

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by WingAdmin » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:44 pm

Sidcar wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:45 am
Are there no part numbers on the seal for you to google?
I was trying to find a seal kit for a Maggura master cyl' and, very usefully, the seals had part numbers on them.

Sid
Nope. There was a part number on the plastic bag that it came in, but that didn't match anything I could find.

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by Sidcar » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:37 am

Verily it would seem thou art stuffed!
Still, as I say through gritted teeth when I hand over another small fortune for a motorcycle part,
"It's only money"

Sid

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by Asphaltmaniac » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:38 am

WingAdmin wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:36 pm
Aussie81Interstate wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:31 am
Scott,

Simple recommendation - hindsight is also wonderful. Before you install the next one - drop it in a cup of hot water and leave it for a few minutes - fish it out- then install it - the heat will make the seal a little bit more supple - a few drops of brake fluid on the piston will also aid installation.

But - sorry to hear you had a "blue" moment - I think we all get them from time to time - mine are quite frequent when I stuff things up - and there is no one else to blame (not within earshot anyway).

cheers
I always lubricate with brake fluid, but I came to the same conclusion as you - I was doing this while sitting in my cold garage, my mistake was not warming the thing up first. I should have clued in when it was so much harder to get the thing on than it usually is.
Next time try getting permission to do simple rebuilds inside where its warm at the kitchen table...ha!

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Re: Calling it a night

Post by WingAdmin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:47 pm

Asphaltmaniac wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:38 am
WingAdmin wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:36 pm
Aussie81Interstate wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:31 am
Scott,

Simple recommendation - hindsight is also wonderful. Before you install the next one - drop it in a cup of hot water and leave it for a few minutes - fish it out- then install it - the heat will make the seal a little bit more supple - a few drops of brake fluid on the piston will also aid installation.

But - sorry to hear you had a "blue" moment - I think we all get them from time to time - mine are quite frequent when I stuff things up - and there is no one else to blame (not within earshot anyway).

cheers
I always lubricate with brake fluid, but I came to the same conclusion as you - I was doing this while sitting in my cold garage, my mistake was not warming the thing up first. I should have clued in when it was so much harder to get the thing on than it usually is.
Next time try getting permission to do simple rebuilds inside where its warm at the kitchen table...ha!
When I got the replacement, I took it inside and took my time in the warmth of my basement workshop. No problems the second time around. :)

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Asphaltmaniac
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Re: Calling it a night

Post by Asphaltmaniac » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:08 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:47 pm
Asphaltmaniac wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:38 am
WingAdmin wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:36 pm


I always lubricate with brake fluid, but I came to the same conclusion as you - I was doing this while sitting in my cold garage, my mistake was not warming the thing up first. I should have clued in when it was so much harder to get the thing on than it usually is.
Next time try getting permission to do simple rebuilds inside where its warm at the kitchen table...ha!
When I got the replacement, I took it inside and took my time in the warmth of my basement workshop. No problems the second time around. :)
I recall the time my aunt caught me washing motorcycle parts in the kitchen sink about 40 years ago. Didn't hear the end of that for weeks...haha!



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