Difficult alternator stator removal

[sacruickshank]

'83 GL1100 Standard with 30k miles.

I'm trying to fix a starter clutch that won't engage. Initially tried soaking it in solvent as recommended by another thread, but no luck. The starter and chain would spin easily by the clutch would never engage, so the engine is now out to see what's really going on in there.

Which leads me to two questions:
1. Currently, the stator can only be spun clockwise (cw), when looking forward from the rear of the bike. When doing this, the starter chain has slack on both sides. If I try to spin the stator ccw it won't budge and the starter chain is now under tension on the inbound side. Since I should be able to turn the stator in either direction correct, could it be the starter clutch is frozen to the stator, which might explain it never engaging?

2. How much torque should it take to get the 17mm stator bolt off? I've got a 2' breaker bar and a decent strap wrench, but don't want to apply too much torque/force. Any chance this bolt is reverse threaded?

Obligatory pic

Thanks,

[DaveO430]

When you are turning the rotor CW does it turn the engine? When turning it CCW it engages the clutch and should turn the starter. The bolt torques to 62 ft lb. It is right hand thread.

[sacruickshank]

Yes, when turning the rotor CW the engine turns as it should. The bike was running before taking the engine out, I just had to roll start it.

When turning CCW, I can't yet tell what is causing the blockage.

Thanks for the info on the bolt torque. I've put PB blaster on there last night, which seems to have loosened the bolt. Rotor now off.

[DaveO430]

The starter itself is causing the stoppage, did you not check it before pulling the engine? The stator is in the rear case BTW, what you removed is the rotor.

[sacruickshank]

Thanks for the input on the starter. And recognizing I had been incorrectly using "stator" rather than "rotor". The rotor is now off and I can turn the engine CCW by using a strap wrench on the rotor's spline shaft.

You're correct that I did not pull the starter out before removing the engine. It seemed to be functioning correctly (aside from not actually turning the engine) and the PO had a new one installed ~3 years and a few hundred miles ago. I have the service record.

[WingAdmin]

The starter itself is causing the stoppage, did you not check it before pulling the engine? The stator is in the rear case BTW, what you removed is the rotor.

Exactly what I was thinking. It sounds to me like the rotor and starter clutch are working exactly as they should, and the problem is more likely going to be a seized/broken reduction gear inside the starter itself.

[sacruickshank]

Yebbut, simply changing the starter would have deprived me of the joy of pulling the entire engine out!

I'll dig into the starter and see what can be found.

[sacruickshank]

Update - yup, I'm guessing the pic below shows why the starter wasn't working. Now I feel a little dumb for taking the engine out, but at least I got the bike cheap because the PO also assumed it was an engine out repair.

I assume I can't (and shouldn't) just replace the trashed gears since they likely damaged the out ring gear, agreed? If so, any recommendations from the experts for a good replacement starter, either aftermarket or OEM?

Starter reduction gears

I'll cleanup the minimal gunge on the sprag clutch and re-assemble.

Sprag clutch

[WingAdmin]

For those who are encountering this same problem, here's a quick and easy way to determine the cause.

Pull the starter out. Dab a small bit of paint or white-out etc. on the starter chain. Push the starter in. Run the starter. Pull the starter out. Look at the chain. If the paint is in the same position, then you know the problem is with the starter reduction gear, and not the sprag clutch.

[sacruickshank]

Yup, WingAdmin, that would have done it. Guess I should have searched/diagnosed a bit more, but was a good learning experience anyway. Now to find a starter and re-assemble.

[sacruickshank]

Rather than trying to salvage the old starter, I've now ordered a new one. Hopefully the quality on this one will be better than the one installed by the PO's mechanic.

Two more questions as I plan the re-assembly.

1. On the starter upper drive sprocket, the contact surface that engages the rollers of the sprag clutch has small ripples from past engagements, as shown in the pic and can be felt. Is that OK, or should I replace the part or "sand" the contact surface? The bearings and teeth are fine. I was planning to re-use the rollers, springs, and followers in the sprag clutch since they were replaced ~3 years ago and had very few miles on them since, but I will inspect them first.

2. The splined thrust washer goes between the rotor/sprag clutch and the shaft supporting the upper drive sprocket. But there is a gap where it looks like the thrust washer will fall off the spline and have a little radial/axial play, which would be taken up when the rotor is assembled and torqued down. It seems like the contact area between the thrust washer and the vertical wall of the shaft is pretty small, especially for the 60+ ft-lb of torque needed for the rotor. Am I missing something or is all this correct? From a mechanical design perspective, I would have wanted more contact area, but I guess space is tight on the shaft and the thrust washed isn't under any load other than the bolt's torque.

Thanks again.

[DaveO430]

Never seen one with those indentions, usually they are very smooth. Don't know if that would cause any problems.
The splined washer is made that way so it will fit close to the recessed part of the shaft, it is what it is.

[goldwinger11]

Those indentations are no problem.

[dnehasert]

I hope you bought a Japanese made starter and not a Chinese replacement. I have bought a couple Chinese starters in the past few years and both lasted less than a year.

[sacruickshank]

Probably was Chinese, $80 from Amazon. Working fine the first few times, but we'll see how long it lasts. At least I now know how to diagnose and fix the issue.