Timing, ticking and other issues


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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Rc67
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 6:26 pm
Location: Jackson, ms
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I

Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:26 am



Hey guys, I need to get some advice on what to do here. I 've posted in a couple of other threads about Timing and TDC, but I figured I better start a new thread due to some new issues. I bought an 80 GL1100 back in May, and when I started her up, she idled rather high, around 2500 RPM. I figured that it might be clogged idle jets, so I proceeded to remove and rebuild the Carburetors. I did not heed good advice on the forum and bought lackluster kits. after the rebuild, I put the carburetor back on and fired her up. wouldn't you know, the carburetor flooded the engine and I got hydro locked. I gave up and sent the carburetor away to get rebuilt.

While I was waiting for the Carb to get rebuilt, which was about a month due to a backlog, I proceeded to change the timing belts. I put it on TDC, clamped down the timing belt wheels and removed and replaced the belts. I noticed that the cogs did not line up exactly at TDC, and would bounce past the Top Dead Center (TDC). The engine rotated, when I cranked the engine CW at the back of the motor, but would still bind a little, and I could never freely get it to the TDC without a slow turn on the engine, and if I was not careful it would bounce slightly past TDC. When I looked at the cogs, they were lined up,
so I thought this was the best I was going to get and better not mess with it.

Well, my Carburetor came back, and I buttoned it up and proceeded to start the bike, didn't turn over. got scared and that it was hydro locked again and I pulled the spark plugs out and tried it again, and it turned over, but very weak rotation. after a lot of trial and error, realized it was a tired Starter motor and got a new one and BAM fired right up. I noticed a little ticking at that point, but looked at some of the member's response and saw that many of them chalked it up to an 80's GL11000 typically sounding that way over time. I said ok, I can live with that, but the one thing I noticed is, whenever I revved up the engine, it didn't give that trademark Whrrrring sound that I hear from most GL's when the Throttle is pegged a little. I resigned myself to the fact that maybe mine was not going to do this and just go on about the business of riding. That's what I did this past Saturday, and I got to tell you it was a thrilling ride. I noticed that when I came to a stop, it was idling between 1500 to 2000, and that seemed still a little high to me.

I have carb sync set at home so I put it on and proceeded to get my carbs synced up. It has been raining the early portion of this week, so I didn't get a chance to take it out again to test. what I have been doing is starting it up and seeing if the carbs are all still lined up. yesterday I started up and noticed that it was idling low, even after I let it warm up. I went ahead and adjust the Idle screw on the Carburetor to get the engine speed to at least 950 RPM. When I got it there, all of sudden I heard this loud ticking noise and then the engine stopped and I pooped my pants. I immediately cut everything off, and went to the back of the engine and manually rotated the engine for fear that it got seized up. Thankfully it turned but it was a chore at some points of the rotation.

I decided right there, to correct the Cogs on the timing, with respect to TDC. I clamped down the Cogs, took off the belts, and then lined the engine at TDC. I finally got the Cogs lined up and put the belts back on and now I can freely land on TDC and not have it bounce past like it was doing after initial belt replacement. what I now notice is that the engine freely rotates until I get to the F2 Mark and then binds up. With some effort, I can get past this and it freely rolls on thru until the second rotation, I believe, and then when hits that mark again it binds up.

I also noticed that when I pulled the plugs that there was a little oil residue on the Spark Plug #1 canal and the Spark plug had more black residue then the other Spark plugs. Not sure where to go from here at this point. I could button it all back up and then try restarting again?

I apologize for the long dissertation, but i wanted to make sure that I did my best as to not leave anything out. I still may have though. :|



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Rc67
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Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues: UPDATE

Post by Rc67 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:54 pm

While I waiting to hopefully hear a reply, I decided to check my valve clearances again. followed the instructions and checked the clearances for Pistons:
1-intake: good
1-exhaust: good
3-exhaust good
4-intake: good

Then I rotated the engine 360 degrees back to TDC checked:

Pistons
2-intake: good
2-Exhaust: readjusted the clearance
3-intake: good
4-Exhaust: not moving at all. looks like the exhaust port stem is right up against the rocker and I can't do a thing with it. that is actually where I heard the loud tick when the engine died.

Do I have to pull the Cylinder head off?



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Wilcoy02
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100 I purchased 3/16

1983 GL1100I frame with an 80 engine. poor boy installed with C-5 ignition--DIED in Grande Prairie Alberta Canada 8/15


98 valkyrie sold 8/16

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Wilcoy02 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:54 pm

To check the rod you will need to pull the head. Before you pull it

Take out the spark plug and feed a small rope (as much as you can) into the firing chamber. This will prevent the valve from dropping down.

Take the rocker panel off and check the stems. This may save you a head gasket.

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Aussie81Interstate
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Aussie81Interstate » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:03 pm

Bent Valve - let us know the results

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Rc67
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:08 pm

Wilcoy02 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:54 pm
To check the rod you will need to pull the head. Before you pull it

Take out the spark plug and feed a small rope (as much as you can) into the firing chamber. This will prevent the valve from dropping down.

Take the rocker panel off and check the stems. This may save you a head gasket.
Wilcoy02

When I do take the rocker panel off, how do I check for the stem? Do I need to pull on it? Sorry I’m diving into uncharted territory here, but I’m ready to do it.

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Wilcoy02
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:37 pm
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100 I purchased 3/16

1983 GL1100I frame with an 80 engine. poor boy installed with C-5 ignition--DIED in Grande Prairie Alberta Canada 8/15


98 valkyrie sold 8/16

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Wilcoy02 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:25 pm

Don't be sorry. That is why we like this forum. Only dumb question is the one not asked.

Take spark plug out.
Fill chamber with small rope. This keeps the valve rods from dropping out of reach.
Take the back plate of the timing belt cover off. 2 bolts behind the timing wheel.
Unbolt the 6 bolts holding the rockers.
Lift the carriage out.
Check that you can move the rods and that they are straight.
If you find one that does not budge rotate the engine from the rear a little bit. The rope will keep you from turning it.
If still not budging time to take head off-at this point you can take the rope out and rods may fall into the chamber. They will move a bit more with rope out.

If the stems move and are straight there is no need to take head off.
Last edited by Wilcoy02 on Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rc67
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:28 pm

Wilcoy02 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:25 pm
Don't be sorry. That is why we like this forum. Only dumb question is the one not asked.

Take spark plug out.
Fill chamber with small rope.
Take the back plate of the timing belt cover off. 2 bolts behind the timing wheel.
Unbolt the 6 bolts holding the rockers.
Lift the carriage out.
Check that you can move the rods and that they are straight.
If you find one that does not budge rotate the engine from the rear a little bit. The rope will keep you from turning it.
If still not budging time to take head off-at this point you can take the rope out and rods may fall into the chamber. They will move a bit more with rope out.
Yeesh...Thanks for the info. here goes nothin...will let you know what i find.

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Rc67
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:30 pm

Wilcoy02 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:25 pm
Don't be sorry. That is why we like this forum. Only dumb question is the one not asked.

Take spark plug out.
Fill chamber with small rope. This keeps the valve rods from dropping out of reach.
Take the back plate of the timing belt cover off. 2 bolts behind the timing wheel.
Unbolt the 6 bolts holding the rockers.
Lift the carriage out.
Check that you can move the rods and that they are straight.
If you find one that does not budge rotate the engine from the rear a little bit. The rope will keep you from turning it.
If still not budging time to take head off-at this point you can take the rope out and rods may fall into the chamber. They will move a bit more with rope out.

If the stems move and are straight there is no need to take head off.
So I followed your instructions, and I had to pull camshaft out with the rocker panel, I’m sure that I didn’t need to do that..Unfortunately I couldn’t move the valve or any of them for matter. I. Think I know the answer already, but, you think I need to pull the head?

If so, can you point me to a reputable place that sells good head gaskets...

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Wilcoy02
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:37 pm
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100 I purchased 3/16

1983 GL1100I frame with an 80 engine. poor boy installed with C-5 ignition--DIED in Grande Prairie Alberta Canada 8/15


98 valkyrie sold 8/16

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Wilcoy02 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:54 pm

What happens when you turn the motor from the back? If you get any resistance then my guess is to pull the head. Put new guides in while you are there.

Here is a link to my record of restoring bikes when I first get them. Scroll down and read the thread.

https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/ ... 23&t=10972

https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/ ... 23&t=13115

Here are my head gaskets:
9/30/17
Cylinder Head Gasket $51.43 + Free Ship E-bay
$56.58 1 Head Gasket 12251-mg9-306 Mid Ohio Honda Dealer
$30.00 2 Head Gaskets 12251-mg9-306 Classic Cycle Parts 4623 Northwest Parkway Hilliard, Oh 844-344-8644 (they are on e-bay -most of their sales)

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Rc67
Posts: 55
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Location: Jackson, ms
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:36 pm

Wilcoy02 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:54 pm
What happens when you turn the motor from the back? If you get any resistance then my guess is to pull the head. Put new guides in while you are there.

Here is a link to my record of restoring bikes when I first get them. Scroll down and read the thread.

https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/ ... 23&t=10972

https://www.classicgoldwings.com/forum/ ... 23&t=13115

Here are my head gaskets:
9/30/17
Cylinder Head Gasket $51.43 + Free Ship E-bay
$56.58 1 Head Gasket 12251-mg9-306 Mid Ohio Honda Dealer
$30.00 2 Head Gaskets 12251-mg9-306 Classic Cycle Parts 4623 Northwest Parkway Hilliard, Oh 844-344-8644 (they are on e-bay -most of their sales)
Wilcoy02,

when I pulled off the rocker housing and the camshaft was coming out, I kind of threw in the towel and resigned myself to the idea that I would have to pull the head. if I'm going to pull the left head, should I go ahead and pull the right head and change the gasket on it as well? I think i saw some oil in the #1 spark plug port, it tends to get a little smokier on the right side exhaust just past the Headers coming out of the right head. might as well investigate that as well right?

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DenverWinger
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Past rides
1972 CL-350 (1980-1988) sold
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by DenverWinger » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:05 pm

My 02¢ -if the other headgasket isn't leaking leave well enough alone. OEM (I wouldn't use any other) headgaskets for 1100 are kinda spendy these days.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

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Rc67
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Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100I

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:07 pm

DenverWinger wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:05 pm
My 02¢ -if the other headgasket isn't leaking leave well enough alone. OEM (I wouldn't use any other) headgaskets for 1100 are kinda spendy these days.
No leaks that I’ve noticed..

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Wilcoy02
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:37 pm
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100 I purchased 3/16

1983 GL1100I frame with an 80 engine. poor boy installed with C-5 ignition--DIED in Grande Prairie Alberta Canada 8/15


98 valkyrie sold 8/16

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Wilcoy02 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:29 pm

Once you get the camshaft out you can inspect the stems. Will they move?

When you put the cam back together torque the six bolts to 15 ft. # In 3 steps 5# then 10# and finish at 15# in sequence.

If the other side ain't broke don't fix it.

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Rc67
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:34 pm

Wilcoy02 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:29 pm
Once you get the camshaft out you can inspect the stems. Will they move?

When you put the cam back together torque the six bolts to 15 ft. # In 3 steps 5# then 10# and finish at 15# in sequence.

If the other side ain't broke don't fix it.

I did a brief check but I didn’t notice any movement. I have the engine at TDC where the cogs would be at the top position. Can I still move the engine back and forth to test? Also, the string came out when I had to catch the camshaft, before it dropped on the ground.

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Wilcoy02
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1983 GL1100I frame with an 80 engine. poor boy installed with C-5 ignition--DIED in Grande Prairie Alberta Canada 8/15


98 valkyrie sold 8/16

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Wilcoy02 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:54 pm

Yes you can move the engine ONLY clockwise. Did the stems drop down when you removed the shaft and rope?

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Rc67
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:47 am

Wilcoy02 wrote:
Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:54 pm
Yes you can move the engine ONLY clockwise. Did the stems drop down when you removed the shaft and rope?
From what I saw last night, it didn’t seem like the stems dropped. Are they suppose to drop in? I would think the springs would keep them from dropping unless I removed the retaing clip

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Rc67
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:57 am

So I went to HF, and purchased a Vaccum Leak down tester. plugged it up the port, set my compressor to 40PSI and opened the valve. no pressure built up and the air was coming out of the Exhaust.

Looks like head pulling time. Wilcoy02, I know you sent me information on the Head Gaskets, but do you know a place that has OEM valve stems at a reasonable price?

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Wilcoy02
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1983 GL1100I frame with an 80 engine. poor boy installed with C-5 ignition--DIED in Grande Prairie Alberta Canada 8/15


98 valkyrie sold 8/16

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Wilcoy02 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:24 am

When I needed to replace my valves I bought another head off e-bay and used them. New ones cost a bundle.

search these #s on google to find new ones.

intake valve 14711-mb9-780
exhaust valve 14721-mb9-780

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Rc67
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:28 am

Wilcoy02 wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:24 am
When I needed to replace my valves I bought another head off e-bay and used them. New ones cost a bundle.

search these #s on google to find new ones.

intake valve 14711-mb9-780
exhaust valve 14721-mb9-780
Wilcoy02, I've been seeing some really clean looking fully assembled heads at a pretty good price on eBay, I remember it said that 80 to 83 GL's were interchangeable except for a few things. did I read that correctly?

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Wilcoy02
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1983 GL1100I frame with an 80 engine. poor boy installed with C-5 ignition--DIED in Grande Prairie Alberta Canada 8/15


98 valkyrie sold 8/16

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Wilcoy02 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:51 am

Yes 77-83 are interchangable

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Rc67
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:32 pm

Wilcoy02 wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:51 am
Yes 77-83 are interchangable
Wilcoy02,

I'm going to pull the head tomorrow. I pulled the exhaust and I can see a gap in the valve and exhaust port on piston #4. I wanted to ask what to do, once I get everything back on and I'm lining up the TDC and both Cogs. I have the right Head on still and I've got the belt on it with the engine at TDC, but I know that when the left side goes on, that there has to be an adjustment. I realize now that I may have been the culprit of my demise from the earlier belt change. When I did the change and had the engine at TDC, I must have moved the crankshaft a bit while pulling the timing belt under the left side pulley wheel, because of the cogs being about a notch off of the line.

All that to say, what would be the proper way to get them lined up with TDC after left-side cylinder head has been reinstalled?

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Wilcoy02
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100 I purchased 3/16

1983 GL1100I frame with an 80 engine. poor boy installed with C-5 ignition--DIED in Grande Prairie Alberta Canada 8/15


98 valkyrie sold 8/16

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Wilcoy02 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:53 pm

Do not lose the oil restrictor when you take the head off.

Here is the answer to all your future questions about the heads.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14868&sid=c83928dc ... 0c35678fa2

/How-To-Articles-GL1100.asp

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Rc67
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:56 pm

Wilcoy02 wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:53 pm
Here is the answer to all your future questions about the heads.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14868&sid=c83928dc ... 0c35678fa2

/How-To-Articles-GL1100.asp

Excellent....thanks man.

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Rc67
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Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Rc67 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:25 pm

so i pulled the head, and not only was the valve bent, but it broke in the exhaust port. thankfully, there was no damage to piston or piston wall. looking at the pic, can you all tell me if I need to replace the head or would valve lapping correct the mar in the port rim? Also, looks like a gouge in the piston port area.
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Wilcoy02
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Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:37 pm
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100 I purchased 3/16

1983 GL1100I frame with an 80 engine. poor boy installed with C-5 ignition--DIED in Grande Prairie Alberta Canada 8/15


98 valkyrie sold 8/16

Re: Timing, ticking and other issues

Post by Wilcoy02 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:23 pm

Someone else may chime in.

I can't help you with that question.



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