Battery type


Technical information and Q&A applicable to all years and models of Goldwings
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ghostvet
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1997 GL1500SE

Battery type

Post by ghostvet » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:18 pm



I just wanted to post a note here...

I am sick and tired of AGM batteries and I bought my last one 07 August 18. I know this because that is the date I wrote on it six months ago when I bought it.

I have been through about 4 or 5 AGM batteries over the last few years. They die. Well, all batteries die, but these cannot be recharged after they drop below about 5VDC. Sulfite crystals form internally and interfere with normal operation. I have refreshed them using a very good battery charger several times, engine started them, fully charged them, but they do not hold amperage.

Yes, I have a trickle charger, but I sometimes forget to connect it, thinking I will be on the bike tomorrow, but then my back acts up and it is six months before I am on it again.

So, I bought a real lead acid battery, and went to charge that up, only to find that my really good charger must have taken a lightning hit or something, 'cause it is dead too.

All I wanted to do was ride, while the weather is still cool enough to enjoy it. Today is blown.

Grrr....



gford
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Re: Battery type

Post by gford » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:27 pm

What make of batteries are you buying? Did you buy quality batteries?

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WingAdmin
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Re: Battery type

Post by WingAdmin » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:53 pm

ghostvet wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:18 pm
I just wanted to post a note here...

I am sick and tired of AGM batteries and I bought my last one 07 August 18. I know this because that is the date I wrote on it six months ago when I bought it.

I have been through about 4 or 5 AGM batteries over the last few years. They die. Well, all batteries die, but these cannot be recharged after they drop below about 5VDC. Sulfite crystals form internally and interfere with normal operation. I have refreshed them using a very good battery charger several times, engine started them, fully charged them, but they do not hold amperage.

Yes, I have a trickle charger, but I sometimes forget to connect it, thinking I will be on the bike tomorrow, but then my back acts up and it is six months before I am on it again.

So, I bought a real lead acid battery, and went to charge that up, only to find that my really good charger must have taken a lightning hit or something, 'cause it is dead too.

All I wanted to do was ride, while the weather is still cool enough to enjoy it. Today is blown.

Grrr....
Any lead-acid battery, whether it be a flooded cell or AGM, if it is allowed to get down to 5 VDC (even 9 VDC) suffers permanent damage and may not be recoverable.

I think you will find the flooded wet cell battery will not perform as well as the AGM - particularly in your GL1500, which is extremely power hungry, and will not run well with a weak battery.

The Yuasa AGM in my GL1500 lasted over 7 years before it was not dependable anymore. The MotoBatt AGM I have in it now is over two years old and still tests as new.

The trick is to maintain it well. My bike is plugged into a Battery Tender Jr. any time it is parked, which keeps the battery topped up - and that's what makes a lead-acid battery last.

Incidentally, if you had bought a replacement AGM, it would have come charged (no initial charging required)!

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ghostvet
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Re: Battery type

Post by ghostvet » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:31 pm

gford wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:27 pm
What make of batteries are you buying? Did you buy quality batteries?

I bought several different brands over the years.

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ghostvet
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Re: Battery type

Post by ghostvet » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:46 pm


Any lead-acid battery, whether it be a flooded cell or AGM, if it is allowed to get down to 5 VDC (even 9 VDC) suffers permanent damage and may not be recoverable.

I think you will find the flooded wet cell battery will not perform as well as the AGM - particularly in your GL1500, which is extremely power hungry, and will not run well with a weak battery.

The Yuasa AGM in my GL1500 lasted over 7 years before it was not dependable anymore. The MotoBatt AGM I have in it now is over two years old and still tests as new.

The trick is to maintain it well. My bike is plugged into a Battery Tender Jr. any time it is parked, which keeps the battery topped up - and that's what makes a lead-acid battery last.

Incidentally, if you had bought a replacement AGM, it would have come charged (no initial charging required)!
A standard, or flooded-battery, can be recovered in most circumstances. Even when the plates are scaled over, there are ways to scrub the plates with baking soda and other chemicals and refill them with acid to make a pretty decent battery for a time. Ya can't do squat with an AGM once it is gone.

The best AGM batteries are about 300 amps. The flooded cell I just got is 260 amps. That is pretty freaking close as far as I am concerned.

Plus, when I felt the alternator, I bought the highest amperage there is, and since that is what actually runs the bike, I am not worried about 40 amps.

And if it doesn't crank the bike, I just bought a 200 amp rolling charger with 1,000 amps cranking power to replace the one that died....

AGM vs flooded lead acid may be a matter of opinion perhaps. I went to the AGM when I read how great they are supposed to be. Being singularly unimpressed with my perhaps half dozen results over the years, I went back to the plain ole tried and true old stuff, until maybe they finally make the 1.21 gigawatts plutonium-powered nuclear fission reactor for my bike.

Take care. Enjoy the ride.

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AZgl1800
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Re: Battery type

Post by AZgl1800 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:37 am

Rule #1 when parking my bike.
Plug in the Battery Tender.....

all 1800s have a residual drain from the electronics. it is small, but if you leave it alone in cold temps, it will not start in 6 weeks time.



I have 5 of them, and they all get plugged into the respective batteries when the vehicle is not in use.
  • RV Deep Cycle 1000 CCA has a 750ma Battery Tender
    Lawn mower tractor, flooded wet cell
    GL1800 ( it has sat now for 6 weeks ) AGM
    Piaggio MP3 scooter. AGM
    a floater that moves to the Suburban or the Aux GenSet as needed
that floater was recently used to put on our car.... typical flooded wet cell
went through 2 weeks of super deep cold weather, it is only 0.5 miles to the grocery store. The car's battery was not being replenished on those ultra short trips.
My daughter said, "dad, the car was slow to start this morning"

I tested the battery with a DVM.... 11.5 volts, not good.
put the 750mA Battery Tender on it, and 14 hours later, it was testing 12.88
~John

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Andy Cote
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Re: Battery type

Post by Andy Cote » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:47 am

My experience with MottBatt in my GL1500 is exactly opposite of Scott's. I had a previous post about my dissatisfaction with their AGM.

I went back to cheap batteries on the GL1500 with plan to replace them when needed.

My Valkyrie I just replaced with a YUASA AGM and we'll see how that goes. Gl1800 is still original.
DARKSIDE #1500
2018 Goldwing, basic black
2000 Valkyrie Interstate, blue/silver

Previously: GL1500 Goldwing, GL1500 Valkyrie Standard, GL1200 standard, GL1200 Interstate, many other Hondas

Ham Extra Class, AC1R

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themainviking
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Re: Battery type

Post by themainviking » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:48 am

I put a motobatt in my GL1800 almost two years ago, in the spring. I loved it for that riding season, treated it very well, put a Honda brand trickle charger on it for the winter and began last year, happy to have a battery I could count on - then it died. I put a desulphating charger on it, and managed to bring it back. So, this year, I did not put a trickle charger on it. I am hooking up the desulphating charger once a month and charging the crap out of it. My OEM battery lasted until spring 2016, from 2009 when the bike was built, and the bike sat in a crate for a year before I bought it in fall 2010. Why can we never get the service from batteries that we get from the original OEM ones. This same thing happens with my cars and trucks. The OEM last seven years or so, sometimes more, and then if I get three years out of a replacement, I am doing good. Motobatt are not cheap batteries - what the hey? Replacements from the vehicle dealerships also are not cheap. Again, what the hey? I have a Lithium Ion battery in my Harley, and it seems to be holding pretty strong, but it was a $300 battery, and weighs about an ounce and a half (or so it seems) - actually about a pound and a half. Size of a pound of butter.
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ghostvet
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Re: Battery type

Post by ghostvet » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:01 am

themainviking wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:48 am
I have a Lithium Ion battery in my Harley, and it seems to be holding pretty strong, but it was a $300 battery, and weighs about an ounce and a half (or so it seems) - actually about a pound and a half. Size of a pound of butter.
Wait... Lithium Ion? Tell me more.

Would there be tremendous value in putting one in the 1500 ya think?

Why doesn't mother Honda put them in the bikes?

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themainviking
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Re: Battery type

Post by themainviking » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:36 am

They were pretty costly. The kind I have, Ballistic, went out of business. Find out more here:

https://www.ballistic-batteries.com/main.php

Another type are available here:

https://www.amazon.com/DLFP20HL-BS-H-Tw ... le+battery
It ain't about the destination - it's all about the journey

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Battery type

Post by Rednaxs60 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:46 am

ghostvet wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:01 am
themainviking wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:48 am
I have a Lithium Ion battery in my Harley, and it seems to be holding pretty strong, but it was a $300 battery, and weighs about an ounce and a half (or so it seems) - actually about a pound and a half. Size of a pound of butter.
Wait... Lithium Ion? Tell me more.

Would there be tremendous value in putting one in the 1500 ya think?

Why doesn't mother Honda put them in the bikes?
Have two bikes with residual drains, my 1500 and an '85 LTD anniversary edition fuel injected model. Batteries are doing well.

Lithium Ion batteries have been around for a while, but are not for every application. They are expensive, very lightweight, but do not like the cold. Being in Florida should not be an issue. Generally need a different charger as well. Here's a web site to get you some general info, it mentions the GW as well: https://www.motopsyco.com/2016/05/13/li ... e-battery/ Batteries as with all other parts such as a better suspension comes down to a cost benefit scenario.

Even the newer cars/trucks have issues with batteries because a lot of people buy the newer vehicles with a lot of parasitic drains when the car/truck is shut down, but do not drive them often and long enough to charge the batteries back to full capacity. There is a Toyota/Lexus dealer in town that has partnered with a local battery shop for the install of battery tenders on the newer vehicles. Lots of retirees here that do not drive much, but have these nice cars.

I use the battery tender every 3/4 days and disconnect the bike batteries whenever I'm away from home for an extended period of time, even two weeks. Do this for the bike batteries, but not the car - go figure.

We as a group generally abuse batteries. Batteries need to be used. Batteries that are well maintained will give good service and longevity. I have a friend in Ontario outside Ottawa who has these smaller batteries in service for 10 years or more. He has a charging station and each battery has its individual charger depending on the application. A little overkill, but it works for him.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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ghostvet
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Re: Battery type

Post by ghostvet » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:01 pm

So I checked a little on the Lithium ion batteries- and for motorcycles they only come in size 20HL.

Don't know about the 1800's, but the 1500 requires nothing bigger than an 18L, so it is out of the question for me even before I look into the pros and cons of a Lithium battery.

Guess I am still waiting for the 1.21 gigawatt plutonium-powered nuclear fission reactor (I hope at least someone gets that reference) and I gotta hope THAT will be in an 18L size.

Ride safe.

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Alan_Hepburn
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Re: Battery type

Post by Alan_Hepburn » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:24 pm

ghostvet wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:01 pm
...the 1500 requires nothing bigger than an 18L...
Am I missing something? My GL1500 right now has a 20HL in it - Batteries Plus lists 18L and all the way up to a 24HL for the GL1500...
Alan Hepburn - San Jose, Ca
1994 GL1500SE with a California Sidecar

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ghostvet
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Re: Battery type

Post by ghostvet » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:00 pm

I dunno.

The 18L is snug in my 1500. Very snug.

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ct1500
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Re: Battery type

Post by ct1500 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:05 pm

ghostvet wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:18 pm
I just wanted to post a note here...
I am sick and tired of AGM batteries and I bought my last one 07 August 18. I know this because that is the date I wrote on it six months ago when I bought it.
I have been through about 4 or 5 AGM batteries over the last few years. They die. Well, all batteries die, but these cannot be recharged after they drop below about 5VDC. Sulfite crystals form internally and interfere with normal operation. I have refreshed them using a very good battery charger several times, engine started them, fully charged them, but they do not hold amperage.
Yes, I have a trickle charger, but I sometimes forget to connect it, thinking I will be on the bike tomorrow, but then my back acts up and it is six months before I am on it again.
So, I bought a real lead acid battery, and went to charge that up, only to find that my really good charger must have taken a lightning hit or something, 'cause it is dead too.
All I wanted to do was ride, while the weather is still cool enough to enjoy it. Today is blown.
Grrr....
It is important to properly charge a new battery before install regardless of what the seller tells you, no trickle charger use for that.
Five batteries? Obviously something going on as that is not the norm especially in warm FL. Stop throwing parts at a problem and do some diagnostic testing to determine the cause. :)

Charging voltage and mA draw results?
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hwydoc2
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Re: Battery type

Post by hwydoc2 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:44 pm

ct1500 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:05 pm
ghostvet wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:18 pm
I just wanted to post a note here...
I am sick and tired of AGM batteries and I bought my last one 07 August 18. I know this because that is the date I wrote on it six months ago when I bought it.
I have been through about 4 or 5 AGM batteries over the last few years. They die. Well, all batteries die, but these cannot be recharged after they drop below about 5VDC. Sulfite crystals form internally and interfere with normal operation. I have refreshed them using a very good battery charger several times, engine started them, fully charged them, but they do not hold amperage.
Yes, I have a trickle charger, but I sometimes forget to connect it, thinking I will be on the bike tomorrow, but then my back acts up and it is six months before I am on it again.
So, I bought a real lead acid battery, and went to charge that up, only to find that my really good charger must have taken a lightning hit or something, 'cause it is dead too.
All I wanted to do was ride, while the weather is still cool enough to enjoy it. Today is blown.
Grrr....
It is important to properly charge a new battery before install regardless of what the seller tells you, no trickle charger use for that.
Five batteries? Obviously something going on as that is not the norm especially in warm FL. Stop throwing parts at a problem and do some diagnostic testing to determine the cause. :)

Charging voltage and mA draw results?
CT 1500 makes a good point: have you had anyone ( if you can't check for yourself) check your alternator and rectifier for correct functioning??? Electrical stuff is not my bailiwick. I do know that since I upgraded my alternator to a 90 amp unit my battery stays almost fully charged; taking less than an hour on the battery tender to come back to fully charged after an hours ride. Starts flawlessly now also. Mine is a 2000 SE

Al in Kazoo

Eckhard
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Re: Battery type

Post by Eckhard » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:46 pm

He did admit that his charger wasn't putting out any voltage. Maybe that is the problem causing all the dead batteries.

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Rednaxs60
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Re: Battery type

Post by Rednaxs60 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:10 pm

Have a friend in Abbotsford, just outside Vancouver BC with a 1200 Aspencade that was having battery issues. Checked the system out all was well, put the battery tender on the battery and the battery had less voltage in the morning then the evening before. He took battery and BT Junior to his mechanic friend. Battery was good, BT Junior toast after 10 years - was discharging battery when plugged in. New BT Junior and all is well. Nothing lasts forever.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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ghostvet
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Re: Battery type

Post by ghostvet » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:47 pm

Eckhard wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:46 pm
He did admit that his charger wasn't putting out any voltage. Maybe that is the problem causing all the dead batteries.
No, it died since they last time I used it- it did not function at all.

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ghostvet
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Re: Battery type

Post by ghostvet » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:48 pm

Rednaxs60 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:10 pm
Have a friend in Abbotsford, just outside Vancouver BC with a 1200 Aspencade that was having battery issues. Checked the system out all was well, put the battery tender on the battery and the battery had less voltage in the morning then the evening before. He took battery and BT Junior to his mechanic friend. Battery was good, BT Junior toast after 10 years - was discharging battery when plugged in. New BT Junior and all is well. Nothing lasts forever.
I will check the tender. Thanx!

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AZgl1800
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Re: Battery type

Post by AZgl1800 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:52 pm

The "old school" Trickle Chargers are a Death Sentence to good batteries.

Leave one on a good/new battery for the winter, and it will dry the battery out completely.

Only the newer "Battery Tender" models and look alikes, can be used for Long Term battery care.
The 'Tenders' monitor the battery voltage, and shut down and wait for the battery to drop belong a specified point before turn the "trickle charger" on again.

the 750mA Battery Tender I am using on my RV Deep Cycle marine battery, seems to be using ~12.3 volts as the bottom figure. Sometimes, when I put a DVM on it, the battery is about 12.88 to 13.1

The little green light is always Green, except when it is first plugged in, it is Red for a short while.

The above stated action, is actually what happens to vehicles that are used everyday.
The batteries rest overnight, we start the car and go somewhere and top the battery off.
Shut the car off, the battery rests again.


~John

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