Starting issue, grinding?


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Ghostt
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Starting issue, grinding?

Post by Ghostt » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:09 pm



My 84 Aspy recently started to make a grinding noise, when I try to start it, sounds like if it was a car, it would be a bad Bendix, as we all know no Bendix on most bikes. After I mess with trying to start it, it finally catches and starts just fine. It makes no difference if the bike is cold or all warmed up.

So I pulled the starter, and ran it over to my friend's shop, he does rebuilt starters, electric motors, etc.... First he put some power to it, it spun up just fine, no grinding noise,or anything else, it worked fine. The looked at the brushes, the looked like new.

So it's not the starter, so I'm thinking the solenoid maybe? The battery was replaced at the start of this season, I've checked it and it's also fine .

So what else should I check, or might be the cause of the problem.



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virgilmobile
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by virgilmobile » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:27 pm

Sprag clutch rollers sticking.Dose it with sea foam and change the oil.
Comon problem.
Search " starter slipping"..or suchlike

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Ghostt
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by Ghostt » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:57 pm

Okay sounds good, better than pulling the engine out etc.... I assume that's the next step if the Seafoam doesn't work.

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WingAdmin
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by WingAdmin » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:39 am

You might also want to have a look at the planetary gears on the starter. Often when they are worn, the starter will run perfectly fine when removed, but when put under load of cranking the engine, they will skip and slip.

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Ghostt
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by Ghostt » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:06 pm

I was going to check those out before I reinstalled the starter. I assume it's easy enough to see bad/worn gears? Should I do anything to them while I have it apart? Grease? Not grease? Etc.....

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Ghostt
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by Ghostt » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:49 am

I found a video on YouTube that sounds just like my starter.

[youtube]

[/YouTube]

So what is my problem?

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Maz
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by Maz » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:40 am

Ghostt wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:49 am
I found a video on YouTube that sounds just like my starter.

[youtube]

[/YouTube]

So what is my problem?
Sounds like the sprag clutch isn't engaging, as suggested above.
Maz
Ironically, Common Sense is the LEAST common of all senses!

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Ghostt
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by Ghostt » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:24 pm

Okay checked the starter planetary, everything looked fine, nothing obviously wrong, or worn. I cleaned it up and greased it up.

I managed to get it to start and let it run for about 15 minutes, and still the same thing.

I added about 5oz of Seafoam, and it's still doing the same thing.

I'm thinking I just need to give it more time.

So if that doesn't work, what am I looking at, pull the engine?

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roadwanderer2
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by roadwanderer2 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:21 pm

Both my 83 and my 86 had the exact same problem. My solution was simply change the starter, but using Seafoam isn't a bad idea either. It might help to loosen up the starter clutch rollers.

Stuart, a.k.a. roadwanderer2.

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Maz
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by Maz » Sun Sep 15, 2019 2:27 am

Ghostt wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:24 pm
Okay checked the starter planetary, everything looked fine, nothing obviously wrong, or worn. I cleaned it up and greased it up.

I managed to get it to start and let it run for about 15 minutes, and still the same thing.

I added about 5oz of Seafoam, and it's still doing the same thing.

I'm thinking I just need to give it more time.

So if that doesn't work, what am I looking at, pull the engine?
The Seafoam, if it's going to work, will take a few miles of riding and getting the engine good and warm, followed by an oil change and repeat. It is not an immediate fix. Some have managed to drill a hole in the exact right place on the engine to be able to squirt cleaning fluid directly into the rollers!
Personally (owning a GL1000 not 1200) I would remove the engine and strip and clean/replace things as necessary.
Maz
Ironically, Common Sense is the LEAST common of all senses!

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Ghostt
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98 Ninja 250 aka Serenity
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by Ghostt » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:22 am

Thank you everyone for your help. I'm gonna buy a new starter, and see what that does.

If I have to pull the engine, then so be it. While I'm in the neighborhood I'll have a chance to check out the stator.

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DenverWinger
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by DenverWinger » Sun Sep 15, 2019 6:43 am

If your starter sounds like the one in the video it is OKAY, replacing it won't fix the starter sprag clutch problem. The starter clutch is behind the alternator rotor in the back of the engine.

The seafoam fix takes a few miles of circulating it around thru the engine, it is not immediate. And since there isn't that much oil circulating around the sprag clutch the seafoam treatment is not always effective. That being the case the engine will need to come out.
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roadwanderer2
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Re: Starting issue, grinding?

Post by roadwanderer2 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:02 pm

If your going to do all that work, be advised that the springs inside the starter clutch are tiny, and once you remove the rollers you'll find 3 caps, once under each roller, the caps are about 1/4 inch long and they sit over the springs. Be very careful not to let the caps fly out because they are under a little pressure from the springs, and once they fly out, its very easy to lose the caps AND the springs, (ask me how I know this LOL). The springs are almost the same size as you'll find in a ball point pen, very easy to lose. Keep your hands over the rollers while your removing them so you don't lose the caps or springs.

When I had the motors out on both bikes, I went and bought new rollers, caps, springs, chain and sprocket, and cleaned up the starter clutch with fine emery cloth and brake cleaner and reassembled them and never had another problem with either bike motor starters.

Stuart, a.k.a. roadwanderer2.



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