Died and came back to life


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
  • Sponsored Links
Post Reply
tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:42 pm



86 Aspencade - Out for a ride earlier today after fillup. A few kms down the road, the bike suddenly died (dash lights off and engine dead) for a few seconds, then came back to life as if nothing happened. Turned around and made it home no issues.
Once home I checked battery connections, checked negative ground under the triangle bracket, checked solenoid connections and blade fuse. Took apart all connections, cleaned all contacts, added dielectric grease and reassembled again. Everything seems OK. Bike starts and runs good.

Checked battery voltages,
14.6 at 2000 rpm
13.2 at idle (950 rpm)
12.2 an hour after shutoff

I'm assuming if I have 14.6 at 2000 rpm that my stator is functioning good? (Let me know if this is wishful thinking).
I did do the hardwire of three yellow wires years ago.
I haven't yet taken the the faux tank off to check the regulator wires and not really sure what to check there anyways.

Not sure if this is relevant, but my battery (an AGM about 4-5 years old) discharged to the point where it wouldn't even turn over a short while ago. There was about 4-5 week stretch where I didn't ride at all. I recharged the battery.
After a few days I was out riding and immediately after fillup at the station, it wouldn't turn over. Got a jump start and made it home, and then recharged the battery again.
Anyone know what else I can check out here? Regulator, Rectifier?
Can't figure out why it would suddenly die and then come back to life. This did happen to me once last year.and Then I cleaned up my negative ground and battery connections and all seemed fine. At a loss what to look for next.



tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:27 pm

I did a bit more digging, and I'm getting the battery load tested tomorrow. Apparently if the battery is less than 12.4 Volts, its considered to be at 75%. (For auto batteries, i think bike batteries would be the same,)
That's one thing to get ironed out.
But what is more important to me is the fact that it died earlier today, screen went out, and after a few seconds, screen comes back on, then popped the clutch and back to life it came.
Don't want to get stranded far from home, if it happens again.
I do not believe this issue is battery related, or is it?
Any thoughts where to look next?

User avatar
ride dont hide
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:11 pm
Location: Keithsburg Il.
Motorcycle: 83 GL 1100 80 CB 750K 68 BSA Royal Star 69 BSA Firebird 69 Triumph Chopper 60 BMW R26 and more.

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by ride dont hide » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:49 pm

I had a similar problem with my 85 aspencade. Ran fine then in an instant it was like someone hit the kill switch, everything dead. Started right back up and dead again. Happened 5 times just going around the block! Finally tracked it to the pulse generator wire which tested fine until I wiggled the wires. Broken on the inside. New pulse installed and not a problem since. I did remove the wires from the clip under the false tank to test. Hope this helps.

User avatar
CrystalPistol
Posts: 821
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:07 pm
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Motorcycle: 1997 GL1500SE/'98 Lehman Trike

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by CrystalPistol » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:55 pm

My 1200 never done that, but the trike did something similar a few times a few years ago. Fix (I hope it stays fixed) was cleaning the contacts in the emergency stop "kill" switch. When the trike did it, it was off less than a second, just a burp like, was running again by time you knew it happened.
Image

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:39 pm

I did remove the wires from the clip under the false tank to test. Hope this helps.
Which wires under the false tank, and how did you test?

User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1074
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by DenverWinger » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:26 pm

14.6 is a nice voltage at RPMs, sounds like your charging system is OK.

I don't know if this bike still has the original main "Dogbone" fuse, but they can get old and crumbly and intermittent, this can be causing both your "cutout" issues, and can also prevent getting a good charge on the battery.

Rather than putting anther dogbone in the holder, many people opt for installing a modern blade fuse holder, connecting it to the dogbone mount screws.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:22 pm

Yes, still the original dogbone fuse. I took the solenoid apart and cleaned all connections. Fuse is in good shape, also added dielectric grease and reassembled.
I dug out my manuals and started reading up on some electrical checks, voltage regulator, pulse generator and the ignition coils.
Earlier today I disassembled the false tank, put the seat back on and drove around the hood. Just wanted to see if I would experience the engine cutout. Of course it never did.
So tomorrow I'll start in earnest with the electrical checks.
Wish me luck.
Thanks for all the feedback. Always appreciated.

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:18 pm

Battery measured 12.7 Volts just before I fired it up this morning, so I'm going with a good battery theory.
Did the pulse generator check, spec is 295-350 ohms.
White / Yellow white measured 354 ohms
White Blue / Blue measured 360 ohms
Looks like just out of spec.
Also checked clutch diode,
Spec says should have infinite resistance one direction and low resistance (continuity) in the other direction.
I have infinite resistance in both directions.
Does anyone know if the out of spec condition on either the pulse generator or the malfunctioning diode can be responsible for my engine cutout scenario?

User avatar
ride dont hide
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:11 pm
Location: Keithsburg Il.
Motorcycle: 83 GL 1100 80 CB 750K 68 BSA Royal Star 69 BSA Firebird 69 Triumph Chopper 60 BMW R26 and more.

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by ride dont hide » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:08 am

Mt P.G also checked close to spec until I bent the wires with my fingers as far as I could reach while checking with a multi meter. Finally found that the wiring was either broke or corroded about 4 inches from the plug under the faux tank. More wiggling put it back to spec then back to 0. Problem solved.

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:08 pm

Update,
Went to mother Honda, and got a silicon rectifier (diode) and ordered a new pulse generator harness, (due to receive it this week)
Replaced the diode.
Also decided to get the battery load tested and sure enough it was on its way out, so I got a new AGM and trickle charged it overnight.
Went out for a 500 km ride on Saturday, the bike ran flawless all day long.
Sunday also being a good day, I decided to get out for another ride.
10 km from home while making a right turn, LCD screen goes dead, engine dies. Pull off to side of road. Turn key on / off a few times, screen dead, no lights coming on. Waited a few minutes, turn key on, lights come on, bike fires right up and I'm back riding, but heading home this time.
A few kms down the road, travelling at a leisurely 80 kmph, same thing happens, engine dies, LCD screen dead. Tried to pop the clutch while still rolling, but no go. Waited a few minutes, turned key to on, lights come on again, bike fires up and off I go.
This happened a third time, waited a few minutes again, lights come on and sure enough bike starts right up and home I go.

Just waiting for my new pulse generator to arrive, and then I'll replace it, and see if this is the culprit to these engine cutouts.

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:10 pm

So, did a few more checks and my RR got so hot after 5 minutes of high idle in the garage that you can't touch it for more than 2 seconds.
Checked the voltage going into the new battery and it is about 15.4 Volts. Way too high. So going to replace the RR.

Started checking out the Mosfet RR offered by Ricks Motorsports Electric as well as Roadster Cycle.
Looks like Roadster Cycle carries the Shindengen FH020AA, and Ricks Electric carries the Mosfet Hot Shot 10-105H.

Has anyone tried the Mosfet RR from either of these two suppliers?

I definitely want to mount the unit in the same location as my current one, not move the RR to a different location on the bike.
Appears that the Shindengen FH020AA will fit into the existing mounting bracket but not 100% sure on the overall height once the proprietary connectors are installed. (Clearance on height when faux tank goes back on)
Apparently the Ricks Electric Hot Shot is a direct plug in, but can't see any detailed pics on the site and haven't heard back from them yet. Their design eliminates the use of the black signal wire, but I don't understand what this does to the bike.

If anyone knows more details about either RR, would appreciate hearing from you.
Thanks as always for any input.

User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1074
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by DenverWinger » Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:36 pm

I bet your regulator is OK, check out this thread for the fix....

https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2- ... ncade.html
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:50 pm

Hi DenverWinger, thanks for this, I just read the entire thread, and now armed with some new testing information,
I'll check out the readings and post the results. Greatly appreciated.

User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1074
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by DenverWinger » Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:34 pm

Ya - It's a bit of a read, but the relay mod was the final cure!
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:53 pm

So, I did the first test and measured 14.24 and 14.25 at 3100 rpm.
While I was getting ready for test 2, my engine suddenly died, all dash lights out, no response to turning of key on/off numerous times. This has been my underlying issue now, good thing its parked in the garage and not on side of road dead..
Started doing other things, taking airbox out so I can see the main harness for any obvious wire chafing, but nothing yet.
Moved the main harness around a bit just to left of airbox and did see the dash lights flicker once, but did not stay on. Went back to doing other things, then came back an hour later.
Turned key, everything back on again, started bike, getting ready for test 2, but before I could get leads hooked up, she went out again.
Came in to write this post.
Not sure of next steps, but will look at manual. Someone in earlier post mentioned ignition switch? Does this sound like a likely course of action?

Hey Denver, is there a step by step for the relay mod. My electrical knowledge is lacking but with good instruction I can likely do it.

User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1074
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by DenverWinger » Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:34 pm

The ignition switch is suspect, try wiggling the wiring on the bottom of the switch, and I still am wondering about your dogbone, when bike is dead check voltage on both ends of it. Also check the plug on the starter relay...

I copied the step-by-step from my post in the thread on the other site:

1) Get a standard automotive relay
2) Unwrap some of the tape on the wiring harness to the regulator to expose enough of the black wire to work with.
3) Cut black wire in the middle, we will be making connections to both ends.
4) Connect black wire from regulator to terminal "30" on the relay.
5) Connect other end of black wire from the wiring harness to terminal "86" on the relay. The voltage here is now used to turn the relay on and off.
6) Connect a new wire direct from the battery thru a 5 amp fuse to terminal "87" on the relay. This is the voltage the regulator will be measuring.
7) Add a wire from terminal "85" on the relay connecting to a good ground.
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

User avatar
Rednaxs60
Posts: 2056
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:44 pm
Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1995 GL1500 SE CDN Edition
2012 Suzuki DL1000 VStrom
2008 GL1800 (sold)
Ontario 1985 GL1200 LTD (sold)

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by Rednaxs60 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:18 pm

There is an RR check in the service manual. Could be like a coil, when cool works fine, heats up and fails.
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:20 pm

So, I did check out my starter relay today.

3.8 - 4.0 ohms across the primary, 0.1 volts across the other two terminals, 0L resistance corner to corner.
With applied battery voltage to primary, and measuring resistance across posts, 0.1-0.2 ohms.
Noticeable click when battery voltage applied to primary.

Pulled another starter relay off a spare bike and performed the same tests, exactly the same measurements as with original relay.

Reinstalled the relay, as I believe these results tell me the relay is good.

Will follow with the RR test results tomorrow.

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:15 pm

Here are the results of the 3 voltage regulator tests from the Saunders site.

1) "Positive voltmeter lead to black wire on regulator, Negative lead to a green wire on regulator. Engine 3000 RPM. This is the actual voltage the regulator "Thinks" it is sensing from the battery. If this reading is more than 14.5 volts I'd say to replace the regulator."
Measured at 14.24 volts and 14.25 volts. Looks like a reasonable number.

2) "Positive lead on voltmeter to Green regulator wire (check both), negative lead to battery Neg terminal. Engine 3000 RPM. High voltage readings here (more than 0.25 volt) indicate deficiencies in ground connections, either the green wires or the battery Neg cable itself. Make sure battery neg cable is in top shape (both ends), Could add another ground connection to the green wires."
Measured 50 - 60 mV or 0.05 to 0.06 volts. Looks like my ground connections are good.

3) "Negative lead on voltmeter to Black regulator wire, Positive lead to battery Pos terminal. Engine 3000 RPM. Voltage readings here indicate voltage drops thru the ignition switch and associated wiring to the regulator voltage "sense" input. A high reading here (more than 0.25 volt) is most easily fixed using the mod shown in post 13."
Measured at 0.7 volts. Definitely greater than 0.25 volts. Looks like the mod described above is in store for me.

Aside from this, I tried wiggling the wires underneath the ignition switch, but was not able to get the bike to cutout. I still want to get the ignition switch out and clean/inspect.
Also need to tackle the pulse generator replacement.

Is anyone able to get the ignition switch out of an Aspencade without taking the fairing off? Looks like very limited room from the top.

User avatar
DenverWinger
Posts: 1074
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:20 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Motorcycle: (s)
1980 GL1100 STD Vetter (2005-)
1993 GL1500 Aspencade (2017-)
1983 Trav-Lite Camper (2010-)
Past rides
1972 CL350 (1980-1988) sold
1978 Suzuki GS550 (1985-2005) sold
1977 GL1000 (2002-2006) sold

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by DenverWinger » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:28 pm

So doing the mod will reduce your charging voltage at the battery by 0.7 volts. That would bring you to 14.7 thereabouts.

Continued wishes of good luck finding the intermittent power connection...
♫ 99 Little Bugs in the Code, ♪
♪ 99 Bugs in the Code. ♫ :(
♫ Take one down, Patch it around, ♪
♫ 127 Little Bugs in the Code. ♫ ♪ :shock:

~Mark

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:20 pm

Did replace the pulse generators yesterday, and then decided I would remove the front fairing for better access. Maybe something obvious as to why the bike cuts out once I can actually see.
Almost to the point where the fairing is ready to be removed.
While I'm removing the plugs connecting the fairing harness to the bike main harness, I notice there is a green connector that is unplugged.
The connector is just to the left and down a bit from the ignition coils on the left hand side.
Even with this plug not connected, I was still able to get power to the dash when the ignition key was turned on.
Here are a few pics




Does anyone know what this green connector is? Looked at a few electrical schematics and can't find what the green connector is for.
Getting closer but no cigar yet.

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:14 pm

Got the fairing off this afternoon. Once removed, I have a good view and can trace the connectors and wiring.
The green connector which was unplugged appears to be the wiring for the trip odometer.
Being unplugged still wouldn't make sense as to why the bike was cutting out, at least not to me.
Now that the fairing is off, I have full access to the ignition switch.
That's for tomorrow.

tbeiler
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Motorcycle: 1986 Goldwing Aspencade,
1985 Goldwing LTD
1983 CX650 Turbo
wanted badly CBX 79-82

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by tbeiler » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:22 pm

Been a few days since last update.
Got at the ignition switch and disassembled it. Was a bit oxidized. Used ultra fine sandpaper and cleaned up all contacts and added dielectric grease. Even pulled the springs under the contacts apart just a touch, to get a bit more pressure on the contact points. Ignition wiring was in good shape. Checked continuity from ignition contacts to plug end, all good.
Also lubed up the key cylinder. The key turns to all positions much smoother compared to before. Reinstalled switch.
Also got the rad back on and filled up with new coolant.
Next I cleaned every electrical connector with contact cleaner and checked every wire in every connector, just to make sure that none were loose. Added gobs of dielectric grease on all connectors.
Getting antsy to start and run the bike. Plugged in every connector except the fairing connectors (it's still off the bike) and started and ran with no issues. So far so good.
Other than the replacement starter relay (my old one measured same results of electrical checks), a new pulse generator (mother Honda) and ignition switch overhaul there is nothing else I can think of to address my cutout condition.

Does the RR get so hot that you can't touch it for more than a few seconds after warm up? Just don't know if this is normal.

Rambozo
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:36 pm
Location: Disneyland
Motorcycle: 1992 GL1500 Aspencade

Re: Died and came back to life

Post by Rambozo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:40 pm

Without all the lights hooked up, the RR will get hotter than normal. It burns off any excess power as heat.



Post Reply