Starter Problem


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javito
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Motorcycle: Goldwing GL1800 2006

Starter Problem

Post by javito » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:38 pm



Hi! I'm new with the Wing, I have a 2006 with 30k miles on it. I've been using the bike every day without problems but two days ago in the morning when I went to start, I couldn't. I heard the relays and then click click from the rear end of the bike under the seat. My battery only have 1 year, it's a Yuasa. I think that it could be the starter brushes but I don't know... some advice will be very appreciated.



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Re: Starter Problem

Post by Viking » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:41 pm

Always the very first thing to check is the battery, and connections, even if it is brand new. As yours is a Yuasa, and probably a lead acid, it is very likely to be the problem. Get a known good battery as your first task and see if that fixes the start problems.
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javito
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by javito » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:04 pm

Thank you for your quick reply. I've checked the batt today and shows 11 amp, maybe it's not enough. I don't know what it's the minimum amp that it's needed to start.

Andy27012
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by Andy27012 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:58 am

I’m assuming you mean 11 volts, the minimum needed is typically 11.8 volts. Take your battery to somewhere that will charge and test your battery as you can’t test a dead battery. If it tests out well check your alternator, rectifier is built into the alternator. Voltage output should be around 14 volts to the battery @2500 rpm. If you wind up needing a new alternator go oem, not dB electrical and not a very popular rebuild guy whose name rhymes with Hen kemmingway. Pm me if you would like details on why. Replacement takes all of an hour and you do not need to remove the entire center fairing and gas tank to do it.

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M61A1MECH
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by M61A1MECH » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:53 am

I agree with Andy, have the battery load tested, that will tell you if it is any good or not. The Goldwings are very picky about having the correct volts and amps to start. If the voltage drops below a certain point which I also believe is around 11.8 volts all the systems required for the bike to start will not be activated. Sometimes it will be enough to spin the starter but not enough to fire the ignition or run the fuel injectors, no spark, no fuel motor does not start.

Report back and let us know how you make out.
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And the Lord said. "Thou shalt have dominion over all of the animals, except of course the cat."

javito
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by javito » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:52 am

I gave a slow charge and test the battery, 12,6 volts, I think the battery it's ok. I put on the bike and continue the problem, when I press the start button I only hear two clicks (I think from the relays) under the seat and the starter doesn't spin. Two days ago when the starter problem began, I put the bike in high gear a move forward and backward thinking that could be the brushes and the bike started, then I rode some miles and tested the started again, the starter spin was very weak but the bike could start. Then I rode again to my home and tested again and the problem appeared again (the two clicks) and never couldn't start the bike again (even trying to move forward and backward).

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Re: Starter Problem

Post by WingAdmin » Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:55 pm

I am thinking the problem is still your battery. Put the voltmeter on your battery, turn the bike on, then hit the starter. Tell us what the voltmeter measures before you turn the bike on, after you turn the bike on, and while you're holding the starter button down.

Techdude2000
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by Techdude2000 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:26 pm

javito wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:52 am
I gave a slow charge and test the battery, 12,6 volts, I think the battery it's ok. I put on the bike and continue the problem, when I press the start button I only hear two clicks (I think from the relays) under the seat and the starter doesn't spin. Two days ago when the starter problem began, I put the bike in high gear a move forward and backward thinking that could be the brushes and the bike started, then I rode some miles and tested the started again, the starter spin was very weak but the bike could start. Then I rode again to my home and tested again and the problem appeared again (the two clicks) and never couldn't start the bike again (even trying to move forward and backward).
If you have a handheld voltmeter, measure the voltage on the RVS A FUSE while you are pushing and holding the starter button switch. Use the battery’s negative post for the meter’s ground connection while measuring. If you read more than 11 volts when the button is pushed, this indicates either 1. a bad connection on the starter relays or the starter itself, 2. a bad starter. You have to move the left saddlebag away from the bike to reach the starter relays and their cable connections to check their connections.

javito
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by javito » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:06 pm

I've measured the battery with one voltmeter with a scale of 1/1000v (mine is borrow). Before turn the bike on 12v, bike on 11v, holding the starter button 11v.
Tomorrow I'll pick up mine voltmeter who has the decimals scale for more precision purpose.

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Re: Starter Problem

Post by WingAdmin » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:20 pm

javito wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:06 pm
I've measured the battery with one voltmeter with a scale of 1/1000v (mine is borrow). Before turn the bike on 12v, bike on 11v, holding the starter button 11v.
Tomorrow I'll pick up mine voltmeter who has the decimals scale for more precision purpose.
No need, that measurement tells us already that the problem is likely not your battery. If it was, the voltage would be dropping far below 11 volts when the starter was engaged.

So it would appear that no power is making it to the starter. Either a starter relay, or the starter itself (brushes, as you mentioned).

The next test would be to measure the voltage at the starter when the starter button is pressed. If you see power there, then the problem is the starter. If not, then the problem is a relay (or something else involved in switching starter power).

javito
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by javito » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:36 pm

To measure the voltage at the starter I need to reach the starter, so I have to remove the tank to do that or I'm wrong... Another thing that casually happen when I was pushing the starter button was that at the same time I've turned a little the throttle and the starter spin very little but not enough to turn the bike on. I've tried to reproduce the incident without success.

Techdude2000
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by Techdude2000 » Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:46 pm

javito wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:36 pm
To measure the voltage at the starter I need to reach the starter, so I have to remove the tank to do that or I'm wrong... Another thing that casually happen when I was pushing the starter button was that at the same time I've turned a little the throttle and the starter spin very little but not enough to turn the bike on. I've tried to reproduce the incident without success.
So, your voltage measurements were at the RVS A Fuse or at the battery posts? If at the battery, we still don’t know if the starter relays are working. If at the fuse, then before you pull the tank and check for power at the starter, you should pull the left saddlebag out and check the cable nuts on the starter relays. Lots of loose nuts have been found through the years.

javito
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by javito » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:44 pm

Were at the battery post. I'll try to check the cable nuts on the relays.

Techdude2000
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by Techdude2000 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:27 am

javito wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:44 pm
Were at the battery post. I'll try to check the cable nuts on the relays.
Ok, before you wrestle the saddlebag loose, check the voltage on the fuse. If you don’t read power on the RVS A fuse, then do the same test on the RVS B fuse. Keep in mind the power should be on them only while the key is on and the starter button is pushed. Confirm a good neutral light as well.

javito
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by javito » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:21 pm

I've checked the voltage on the fuses with my voltmeter. Results:
Battery 13.6 v
RVS A 12.78v
RVS B 13.28v
RVS Start 13.02v

Techdude2000
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by Techdude2000 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:27 pm

javito wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:21 pm
I've checked the voltage on the fuses with my voltmeter. Results:
Battery 13.6 v
RVS A 12.78v
RVS B 13.28v
RVS Start 13.02v
Ok, that indicates that both relays are working, which eliminates lots of other stuff as a possibility. There is a slight chance it could be a loose connection on the B starter relay and moving the saddlebag is the only way to reach it. I’m afraid it’s going to be a bad starter, but checking the relay’s connections is next.

javito
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by javito » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:12 pm

I was travelling this days. There is no loose connection on the starter B, so I´ll have to repair the starter.

Techdude2000
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by Techdude2000 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:16 pm

javito wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:12 pm
I was travelling this days. There is no loose connection on the starter B, so I´ll have to repair the starter.
Ok, there’s still a remote chance that the cable could be loose or corroded where it attaches to the starter, I’m crossing my fingers... Hopefully, if it is the starter it will only need new brushes.

javito
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by javito » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:09 am

Thank you! I think it could be the brushes, I'll know soon.

Techdude2000
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by Techdude2000 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:37 pm

javito wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:09 am
Thank you! I think it could be the brushes, I'll know soon.
Just a quick note. When you go to reinstall the starter, DON’T pull it into the engine using the bolts! Use only your hands to turn it until the reverse idler gear and the starter clutch gears engage properly. Using the bolts can cause you to not mesh the teeth of the reverse gear and it will break it, causing the engine to have to be pulled out of the frame for an expensive repair. :shock:

javito
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by javito » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:08 pm

Thank you for the quick note. I'll consider that suggestion and of course look the service manual :D

javito
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by javito » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm

Finally I took out the starter and the brushes were slightly used but with a lot of rust, I think because of the humidity of my zone (and 6 months without almost using her). I went to a dealer Honda and I've bought all the parts new. During weekend I'll complete the job. Thank you all, you were very kind.

Techdude2000
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Re: Starter Problem

Post by Techdude2000 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:43 pm

javito wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:35 pm
Finally I took out the starter and the brushes were slightly used but with a lot of rust, I think because of the humidity of my zone (and 6 months without almost using her). I went to a dealer Honda and I've bought all the parts new. During weekend I'll complete the job. Thank you all, you were very kind.
Great! Glad it’s just the brushes and springs.



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