Fuel Pump Inop??


Information and questions on GL1200 Goldwings (1984-1987)
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ncamie
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Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by ncamie »



Hello all.

My 1984 GL1200 Aspencade has been down for the last six months and I've been slowly bringing it back from a cold death. The engine hasn't been run in about the same time. Last it died right after my relative dumped a can of Sea Foam in the fuel tank for no specific reason at all. The bike ran relatively fine until then. The next day she wouldn't fire up. Since then I've cleaned out the carbs and fuel system but haven't run the engine yet.

Geez I wish I could post a pic of the carbs; I have never seen such a green gunky crystalized foul looking and smelling set in my life!

One of the many other problems I'm running into now is the fuel pump doesn't seem to work. I understand the pump is supposed to "pulse" on demand using a signal from a fuel pump relay that I have yet to find.

What I know is that the pump doesn't work whatsoever, yet the electrical lead to it makes something like 6-8 volts; I couldn't hold the tester leads steadily enough to tell what the exact voltage was or if it was steady or pulsing. Maybe I should have 12 volts?? I don't know. I also removed the end cap off the fuel pump and cranked the engine over with it electrically connected and the pump points exposed for visual inspection. When I cranked the engine the points didn't show any signs of movement/ticking/noise or anything. Either way, Starting Fluid showed promise when I tried it so that eliminated ignition and air issues. Additionally, all spade-type fuses I could find are in good shape too.

So, is there a fuel pump relay in there somewhere? I looked around under the glove box/air cleaner area to no avail. The shop manual says it's there, but I'm dumbfounded to find it. I called a local dealer parts shop and they couldn't positively tell me one existed. Also, I understand there may be a fuel pump "cutoff" relay or something? If there is, what is its function vs the regular pump relay? Where is it located?

Thank you!



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virgilmobile
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by virgilmobile »

The gl1200 fuel pump system is a odd duck indeed.
However I did figure it out.
The "relay" is a ignition coil activated load switch.
It does not continuously provide power for the pump.It switches "on" when there is ignition spark AND when the pump contacts are closed.
When running normally,a test light would just blink on every time the pump cycles.
For testing,the pump can be disconnected and fused 12 volts applied direct to operate it and be able to check fuel pressure and flow.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by virgilmobile »

By the way.The fuel relay is up front.Bout center and near impossible to get to.

ncamie
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by ncamie »

virgilmobile wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:37 pm
By the way.The fuel relay is up front.Bout center and near impossible to get to.
Thank you Virgilmobile. The book talks about removing the ignition coils to find the relay; admittedly I haven't done that yet. Is the relay sitting in front of those coils is it? Does it look like a black plastic cube? Before I go looking for it again, what can you tell me about the voltage to the fuel pump electrical lead, is it supposed to be 6-8 volts or 12 volts? I don't have a test light, only a digital multimeter. Hmmm, just read connecting it directly. I may try that!

Also, out of curiosity, what is the fuel pump "cutoff" relay?

Norman

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virgilmobile
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by virgilmobile »

It does look like a black cube and is in front of the ignition coils.
It's suppose to have steady 12 volts on the black wire with the key on/cranking/running.The other wire will have a short pulse on it when the pump cycles and is not easily measured with a digital meter.I saw it best with a test light when the bike was running and the pump was pulsing.The third wire ties to the ignition coil primary winding.It also has a very short pulse and quite high a voltage.
It may also have a bank angle sensor that operates a relay to remove power from the ignition and pump circuit to kill the engine should you lay it down.
I'd have to locate a schematic to verify this.

ncamie
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by ncamie »

virgilmobile wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:29 pm
It does look like a black cube and is in front of the ignition coils.
It's suppose to have steady 12 volts on the black wire with the key on/cranking/running.The other wire will have a short pulse on it when the pump cycles and is not easily measured with a digital meter.I saw it best with a test light when the bike was running and the pump was pulsing.The third wire ties to the ignition coil primary winding.It also has a very short pulse and quite high a voltage.
It may also have a bank angle sensor that operates a relay to remove power from the ignition and pump circuit to kill the engine should you lay it down.
I'd have to locate a schematic to verify this.
Thank you man. I'll see what I can manage with her. Will check back in a bit later.

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julimike54
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by julimike54 »

"what is the fuel pump "cutoff" relay?"

That relay is on the fuel injected models, Aspencade doesn't have it.
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ncamie
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by ncamie »

julimike54 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:49 am
"what is the fuel pump "cutoff" relay?"

That relay is on the fuel injected models, Aspencade doesn't have it.
That explains it. Thank you.

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DaRamblerman
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by DaRamblerman »

The Aspencade does have a fuel cut relay. Number 21 in the pict...https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda ... ition-coil


The relay is mounted in front of and just to the right of the coils and it can be changed without pulling fairing. Pull shelter, air box cover and any wires in the area. There are some bracket to remove and loosen coils I managed to wriggle it up between coil pack to remove and replace.

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DaRamblerman
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by DaRamblerman »

virgilmobile wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:29 pm
It does look like a black cube and is in front of the ignition coils.
It's suppose to have steady 12 volts on the black wire with the key on/cranking/running.The other wire will have a short pulse on it when the pump cycles and is not easily measured with a digital meter.I saw it best with a test light when the bike was running and the pump was pulsing.The third wire ties to the ignition coil primary winding.It also has a very short pulse and quite high a voltage.
It may also have a bank angle sensor that operates a relay to remove power from the ignition and pump circuit to kill the engine should you lay it down.
I'd have to locate a schematic to verify this.
Hello Virgilmobile. Do you know what the voltage should be AT the pump? I read 6 volts with digital meter on the black wire which has the positive tag on it for the pump. Thanks. trying to track down intermittent failure of pump. I did replace the cutoff relay.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by virgilmobile »

6 volts isn't enough volts to operate the pump.
I'd bet that it takes 12 volts at 5 amp to get that thing to pulse.
When the pump is at rest,there should be "almost"a dead short from the feed wire to ground.Its the coil resistance.Maybe a ohm or less.As soon as the power gets through the contact points it energizes the coil pulling the plunger and opening the points.
You can apply (fused) power directly to the pump to verify if it works.As soon as it builds pressure,it stops pulsing.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by virgilmobile »

Also..a digital meter won't display the voltage correctly.Its just not fast enough.The voltage at the pump appears very fast and only when the pump contacts close. And then it's gone when the pump cycles.
So you might see a faint blip with a test light but not a steady bright light.
That's the design of the "relay".It only conducts power at the moment when the pump needs it to cycle.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by virgilmobile »

Question..Are " we " working on the 1200 carb bike with the pulse type fuel pump or the 1200 fuel injected bike with the high pressure pump in the gas tank???

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DaRamblerman
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Re: Fuel Pump Inop??

Post by DaRamblerman »

Yup 87 1200 A. Pump black pos wire is showing 6 volts while running. if it is supposed have 12 where would I look for the loss? My brother an electronics guy says it is possible for a 12v electromagnetic pump to run on 6v. I can cruise along just fine then carbs starve out I reach down and pump not working. I have put 2 pumps on so its not the pump. I thought mayb the cutout relay so I replaced that. I can run for several hundred miles between incidents. I shut down wait for about 10 min all good for a while. This can very inconvenient on organized runs. I just installed a bypass to see if the next time routing 12v to the pump works I read that is a "fix" on other threads. But I would like to find and fix the problem,Thanks. Ncamie on the above posts also had 6-8 v at the pump.



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