Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise


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abenadam
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Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by abenadam »



Hi guys,
I'm at the point of no return. Bike stripped and I'm almost "ready" start engine removal. The reason - replace alternator bearing in rear crankcase and nothing else.
I'm alone and don't have shop crane. Any tricks to stabilize the bike? Anything that makes job easier, like removing front wheel, placing a piece of wood under central stand, other? I've enjoyed to watch this video -

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but still. The moment I'm starting to take the engine out, it is a no return point that scares me. What is the engine will fall to quick? is there a way to precisely control the speed of the lift?
Another question, I will not be able to remove the engine from the motorcycle lift as it way too heavy and I'm alone, so, repair need to be done while the engine is still on the lift. Is it possible? I image yes, but will appreciate for recommendations.

GL1800, 2006, ~90k miles



Techdude2000
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by Techdude2000 »

abenadam wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:17 pm
Hi guys,
I'm at the point of no return. Bike stripped and I'm almost "ready" start engine removal. The reason - replace alternator bearing in rear crankcase and nothing else.
I'm alone and don't have shop crane. Any tricks to stabilize the bike? Anything that makes job easier, like removing front wheel, placing a piece of wood under central stand, other? I've enjoyed to watch this video - [YouTube]EBRESh07hgU,[/YouTube] but still. The moment I'm starting to take the engine out, it is a no return point that scares me. What is the engine will fall to quick? is there a way to precisely control the speed of the lift?
Another question, I will not be able to remove the engine from the motorcycle lift as it way too heavy and I'm alone, so, repair need to be done while the engine is still on the lift. Is it possible? I image yes, but will appreciate for recommendations.

GL1800, 2006, ~90k miles
Are you replacing the drive gear too? To remove the rear cover, you have to remove the clutch cover and the clutch. Removing the nut on the clutch basket will be tough with it on a lift.

white_wing04
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by white_wing04 »

You also need the Special Tools to properly reinstall the engine. I bought the set off a guy in California. If your interested let me know I am in Toronto.
Honda version of the tools is very expensive. I paid about $400 for set ! You can have my set for $250 and shipping !
Steve
Text me at 416-884-5644 if you are interested. Or email sjm.esem@gmail.com I can send you pic of the set I have. You also need service manual. You can destroy the frame if you don't torque it properly and these tools allow you to do that.
o
I put new engine in my 04 in 2013 after tranny decided to leave the case on way to Walmart.

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GoldWingrGreg
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

What is wrong with the alternator bearing in the rear case ??? The bearing in front of the alternator is know as an ADG (alternator drive gear) bearing . There are 2 bearings for the ADG ... a front and rear.

Part #14
https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/hon ... /rear-case

Part #16
https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/hon ... drive-gear

Assuming that your Wing is still a 2-whl version, and its rear tire is OEM size, it is best to remove the engine while the Wing is on its center stand. The center stand needs to be on a smooth garage floor. Remove both front fenders and the front wheel too. Reinstall the frt axle and support that with a jack stand ... I have a spare axle just for this. Position the height of the jack stand so that the rear tire is 1.5" off the ground. The bolts for the exhaust joint's clamp between the headers need to be loose. The alternator must be removed. When your jack is collapsed, be sure it is no taller than the one shown below, clearance it tight. You'll need to place the jack on the left side of the engine, it will swing out around the left lower frame stub. Be careful that the throttle body, and its sensors clears the front frame stub. Be sure to pull the fuel tank hoses through the cross member space, that the knock sensors are disconnected, the main harness is disconnected on both sides of the throttle body, and all the bolts for all 3 ground straps have been removed.
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abenadam
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by abenadam »

To all interested, this is how failed bearing looks with alternator removed https://photos.app.goo.gl/pkK36rqiQfpEqiYe8
I have dropped the engine down(on lift :D ). Will be disconnected startor and removing it from the frame in the next few days.
By the way, alternator is not OEM but DB Electric, that 100% a reason of what happened, but that a different story ....

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kwthom
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by kwthom »

Part two was interesting as well:



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abenadam
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by abenadam »

Absolutely, these videos are the best I found about GW engine removal. Very inspiring. I hope it, service manual and lot of images will make the job done.

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GoldWingrGreg
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

abenadam wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:25 pm

By the way, alternator is not OEM but DB Electric, that 100% a reason of what happened, but that a different story ....
You've answered my next question. Yours makes the 3rd incident of this that I've heard of. In all 3 cases, a DB alternator was installed. Let me ask ... did you have any difficulty installing the DB alternator ??? Did you have to draw it in with its mount bolts ???

I have one in my shop now for the same thing. In this customer's case, he'd installed a DB alternator as PM. Rode it 40 miles and heard a noise. Removed the alternator and found a chewed up cage like you. He shipped the alternator back for a refund, so I'm not able to inspect it. His Wing was trailered in.

Be sure to replace both ADG bearings, and both washers. If I were doing that repair, I'd be replacing the ADG, and its scissor gear too. If your OEM alternator is not rebuildable, replace that with a new OEM alternator from Honda.

For various reasons, very few have any luck with aftermarket alternators, starters, or starter relays. For best results, use OEM parts on everything other than steering head bearings, and suspension parts.

Techdude2000
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by Techdude2000 »

GoldWingrGreg wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:07 am
abenadam wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:25 pm

By the way, alternator is not OEM but DB Electric, that 100% a reason of what happened, but that a different story ....
You've answered my next question. Yours makes the 3rd incident of this that I've heard of. In all 3 cases, a DB alternator was installed. Let me ask ... did you have any difficulty installing the DB alternator ??? Did you have to draw it in with its mount bolts ???

I have one in my shop now for the same thing. In this customer's case, he'd installed a DB alternator as PM. Rode it 40 miles and heard a noise. Removed the alternator and found a chewed up cage like you. He shipped the alternator back for a refund, so I'm not able to inspect it. His Wing was trailered in.

Be sure to replace both ADG bearings, and both washers. If I were doing that repair, I'd be replacing the ADG, and its scissor gear too. If your OEM alternator is not rebuildable, replace that with a new OEM alternator from Honda.

For various reasons, very few have any luck with aftermarket alternators, starters, or starter relays. For best results, use OEM parts on everything other than steering head bearings, and suspension parts.
And I might add, make sure and install the front ADG bearing correctly, it matters...

abenadam
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by abenadam »

Hi Greg, thanks for following and looking into it.
I've got the engine out.

>>You've answered my next question. Yours makes the 3rd incident of this that I've heard of. In all 3 cases, a DB alternator was installed. Let me ask ... did you have any difficulty installing the DB alternator ??? Did you have to draw it in with its mount bolts ???
* Yes, I had a difficulties.
* No. I knew it should go in without any resistance. After rotating an alternator's axis for about 180, I was able to install it. And that was a sign that something wrong with it! I'll post a video demonstrating the alternator's defect. I wrote to DB and they offered a 100$ refund. I said - no, due to the damage of few thousand I really don't need this small amount of money and I mentioned that I'll keep the alternator and will be posting everywhere where I can about what happened.
Here is a video with defect. The end of alternator axis doesn't make a circle, but an oval. Watch sec 15 and 36 how it pushes screwdriver out and after that there is a hole between axis and screwdriver.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W2-mDg ... q47Gz/view

The distance between the centre of the axis and its edges is different - A != B



>>Be sure to replace both ADG bearings, and both washers.
* What washer?

>>If I were doing that repair, I'd be replacing the ADG, and its scissor gear too.
* what scissor gear?

>>If your OEM alternator is not rebuildable, replace that with a new OEM alternator from Honda.
That will be OEM without any doubt

Techdude2000
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by Techdude2000 »

So, did DB clamp their shaft in a vice and squish the splines or is it machined off center? That’s some messed up stuff right there!

The scissor gear is on the crankshaft and drives the ADG.

I think Greg is thinking it’s an 01-05, they have two washers on the ADG. The 06 doesn’t have them.

abenadam
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by abenadam »

Techdude2000 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:29 am
So, did DB clamp their shaft in a vice and squish the splines or is it machined off center? That’s some messed up stuff right there!
I believe it is off center.
The verdict - OEM is a must and no DB in my life. 1mm off center- few thousand out of the pocket.
To anyone, who thinks about aftermarket - here is the inspiring image



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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

abenadam wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:56 am

* What washer?

* what scissor gear?
So DB's "new OEM knock offs" have bent shafts. That explains it and thanks for posting those vids.

As for washers, like Rob was saying, I was thinking that yours Wing was a 2001-05. On those they use a mechanical ADG and 2 washers sit between the ADG and the rear bearing. A scissor gear is spring loaded and adds tension to tooth engagement. 5th gens have two of them under their rear case. The ADG is driven by one of them ... part #1 in the fishe below.

https://www.mrcycles.com/oemparts/a/hon ... drive-gear

Because your Wing is not a 2001-05, I'm not sure you need a new ADG and scissor gear. If your ADG had the mechanical design, then I'd recommend replacing it, but yours is not that type. Like Rob said, be sure the front ADG bearing is installed with the seal facing forward.

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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by GLRT »

I did a video on the differences between the DB and OEM - there are none! Even the small imperfections in the casting are identical. I came to the conclusion that the same company (probably Japan or China) manufactures these alternators then they are sold by DB or rebranded as Mitsubishi (and price tripled) I have had great luck with DB and they have an outstanding rating for reliability across all their products. Something is fishy here is my opinion.

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GoldWingrGreg
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Re: Going to remove the engine. Looking for encourage/advise

Post by GoldWingrGreg »

GLRT wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:05 am
I did a video on the differences between the DB and OEM - there are none! Even the small imperfections in the casting are identical. I came to the conclusion that the same company (probably Japan or China) manufactures these alternators then they are sold by DB or rebranded as Mitsubishi (and price tripled) I have had great luck with DB and they have an outstanding rating for reliability across all their products. Something is fishy here is my opinion.
You can easily be correct. Both can be manufactured by the same company. However, the ones DB is selling didn't make it past the QC check, and are sold as knock offs. Which means the seller can advertise them as "brand new, same as OEM, manufactured by the same company" ... all of which is true. However, for them to come in a Honda packaging means that they passed all required QC checks. It is that way with many parts especially when they get more expensive. What is considered junk to most, to others has value, and some will sell it for profit.



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