Minimizing effects of ethanol


Technical information and Q&A applicable to all years and models of Goldwings
grantimus
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:51 pm
Location: Box Elder, SD
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100I Interstate

Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by grantimus »



I know that running ethanol is bad for the carbs(not sure about fuel injection) and always run 91 octane in all our vehicles. On my '82 GL I've been trying really hard to avoid ethanol but its difficult since not all the 91 will specifically say its ethanol free. I've starting asking the store managers and am finding that alot of the 91 does contain E. So how can I best minimize the ill effects of ethanol? I've been running Seafoam or MMO in every tank of fuel, will this help with that or do I now ALSO have to run one of those ethanol type additives as well in addition to seafoam or MMO? maybe I'm just being anal retentive about it?



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AZgl1800
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2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc

Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by AZgl1800 »

IF,
you run the bike every day or so, Ethanol will not gum up the carbs.
However, it can cause rubber parts to dissolve and get soft, causing leaks.
Some folks have reported use e-10 for several years w/o ill effects, but they also say they ride their bikes year around, and never store them for long periods of time.

91 Octane is a no no, it just leaves uncombusted fuel deposits on the heads and valves.

all Goldwings require 87 octane, more than that is a waste of money, and detrimental to the engine.

IF,
you are going to park the bike for extended period of time, clamp the fuel line to the carbs and keep the engine running until it quits for lack of fuel. It is helpful to use STA-BIL 360 Marine Ethanol Treatment and Fuel Stabilizer 8 oz. $7.98 at Home Depot which will help to negate the effects of Ethanol.

put that in the gas tank and run the bike for a few miles to make sure it gets into the carbs....
it is still a good idea to block the fuel to the carbs, and let the engine starve for gas, if you are putting it up for a long time.
~John

'02 GL1800
2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc

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dnehasert
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by dnehasert »

I'm on my 4th GL1100 and have always used 87 10% alcohol. Never had a problem with operation or parts failures. The fuel has been arround since the late 70's and the Wings were designed for it. Sometimes one can overthink a possible problem. Just enjoy the bike and ride it.

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Asphaltmaniac
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by Asphaltmaniac »

Do you have maverick gas stations where you live? Some of them do sell ethanol free fuel. And there is an ethanol free fuel website to check out.

grantimus
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by grantimus »

Thanks guys, thought I was on the right path with 91, had no idea that that 87 is what should be run in them (this is also my first Wing and has 25k miles on it) most all the 87 here is a 10% ethanol. Since it sounds like you guys have been running the 10% with no ill effects I'll start using it and will do as suggested when it comes time to I winterize it. Its been 8-9yrs since I last had a bike, I plan on riding it CONSTANTLY to make up for lost time, ya know😁. I'm still learning about this bike but have replaced timimg belts and did the tensioner upgrade, new wheel bearings front and rear, brakes/calipers all rebuilt(those these EBC pads leave a lot brake dust though), fork seals along with progressive springs up front. I have to say this Forum is a priceless wealth of information...love it!!πŸ‘πŸ»The bike running great! Though I did make a mistake and sat on an 1800 at the dealer and that is so damn comfortable but not for a couple years or my wife will shoot me!

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AZgl1800
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by AZgl1800 »

sounds like you are on the right path to an enjoyable ride.
~John

'02 GL1800
2009 Piaggio MP3 250cc

tourman
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Motorcycle: 2003

Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by tourman »

www.pure-gas.org ethanol free website

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newday777
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1983 GL1100A Wineberry 36,000 miles

1975 CB750 K5 Planet Blue 7,800 miles

1976 CB750 K6 Anterris Red 25,000 miles

Past rides
1999A Restored from PO neglect & sold at 19,000 miles

1999SE Totaled by cager at 105,000 miles

Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by newday777 »

grantimus wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:53 pm
Thanks guys, thought I was on the right path with 91, had no idea that that 87 is what should be run in them (this is also my first Wing and has 25k miles on it) most all the 87 here is a 10% ethanol. Since it sounds like you guys have been running the 10% with no ill effects I'll start using it and will do as suggested when it comes time to I winterize it. Its been 8-9yrs since I last had a bike, I plan on riding it CONSTANTLY to make up for lost time, ya know😁. I'm still learning about this bike but have replaced timimg belts and did the tensioner upgrade, new wheel bearings front and rear, brakes/calipers all rebuilt(those these EBC pads leave a lot brake dust though), fork seals along with progressive springs up front. I have to say this Forum is a priceless wealth of information...love it!!πŸ‘πŸ»The bike running great! Though I did make a mistake and sat on an 1800 at the dealer and that is so damn comfortable but not for a couple years or my wife will shoot me!
Welcome to the forum and to wing riding. The 1100 is a fun wing to ride and easy to work on. Yes ya gotta keep mamma happy. Great to hear you have been doing the necessary work and preventative maintenance on it.
As to the ethanol, I've tried the non ethanol on a few times when I've found it on my trips to no gain...... Just ride your bike and put it away properly come winter, yes get the marine grade staybil or Staron stabilizer for winter storage, full tank of gas. Turn the petcock off each time you leave the bike more than a couple hours to prevent possible hydrolock happening(common on the 4 cylinder wings if you don't). Just get in the habbit to doing it all the time and.... turn the gas back on before you fire it back up. You can put a couple oz of Seafoam in the gas each tank or once and a while to help clear out any effect of the ethanol as a maintenance.
I bought an 83 as my first wing in 2009, brought it back to life after it had sat unused for 13 years. I had a blast on it putting 26,000 miles in 18 months. Then a friend left a 99SE 1500 to me. 3 1/2 years later and 55,000 miles, a girl in a car took it out. I replaced it with an 08 1800 in June 2013 and have put 130,000 more on it, and about to head back across the country from San Diego to NH for the rest of the summer and fall, then return before(hopefully!) before snow flies.....
Have fun on it and keep a watchful eye out.
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grantimus
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by grantimus »

newday777 wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:48 am
grantimus wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:53 pm
Thanks guys, thought I was on the right path with 91, had no idea that that 87 is what should be run in them (this is also my first Wing and has 25k miles on it) most all the 87 here is a 10% ethanol. Since it sounds like you guys have been running the 10% with no ill effects I'll start using it and will do as suggested when it comes time to I winterize it. Its been 8-9yrs since I last had a bike, I plan on riding it CONSTANTLY to make up for lost time, ya know😁. I'm still learning about this bike but have replaced timimg belts and did the tensioner upgrade, new wheel bearings front and rear, brakes/calipers all rebuilt(those these EBC pads leave a lot brake dust though), fork seals along with progressive springs up front. I have to say this Forum is a priceless wealth of information...love it!!πŸ‘πŸ»The bike running great! Though I did make a mistake and sat on an 1800 at the dealer and that is so damn comfortable but not for a couple years or my wife will shoot me!
Welcome to the forum and to wing riding. The 1100 is a fun wing to ride and easy to work on. Yes ya gotta keep mamma happy. Great to hear you have been doing the necessary work and preventative maintenance on it.
As to the ethanol, I've tried the non ethanol on a few times when I've found it on my trips to no gain...... Just ride your bike and put it away properly come winter, yes get the marine grade staybil or Staron stabilizer for winter storage, full tank of gas. Turn the petcock off each time you leave the bike more than a couple hours to prevent possible hydrolock happening(common on the 4 cylinder wings if you don't). Just get in the habbit to doing it all the time and.... turn the gas back on before you fire it back up. You can put a couple oz of Seafoam in the gas each tank or once and a while to help clear out any effect of the ethanol as a maintenance.
I bought an 83 as my first wing in 2009, brought it back to life after it had sat unused for 13 years. I had a blast on it putting 26,000 miles in 18 months. Then a friend left a 99SE 1500 to me. 3 1/2 years later and 55,000 miles, a girl in a car took it out. I replaced it with an 08 1800 in June 2013 and have put 130,000 more on it, and about to head back across the country from San Diego to NH for the rest of the summer and fall, then return before(hopefully!) before snow flies.....
Have fun on it and keep a watchful eye out.
Thanks for the tips, ill definitely do that! Those are nice pics and bikes! Good luck, be safe and fun on your trip across country!!

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Wilcoy02
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by Wilcoy02 »

I put 4-5 oz of ATF in every other tank of gas. Helps keeps the carbs lubed.

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Wing--Man
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by Wing--Man »

grantimus wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:30 pm
I know that running ethanol is bad for the carbs(not sure about fuel injection) and always run 91 octane in all our vehicles. On my '82 GL I've been trying really hard to avoid ethanol but its difficult since not all the 91 will specifically say its ethanol free. I've starting asking the store managers and am finding that alot of the 91 does contain E. So how can I best minimize the ill effects of ethanol? I've been running Seafoam or MMO in every tank of fuel, will this help with that or do I now ALSO have to run one of those ethanol type additives as well in addition to seafoam or MMO? maybe I'm just being anal retentive about it?
Seafoam and MMO I use without detriment. I am a little more conservative tho, I will use them about every 3rd to 5th tank fills when using ethanol. There are times I am not riding for a several days and the fuel sits.
I have little choice and have to use ethanol since I do not live in farm country.
Ethanol, the bike has a random miss at idle but not going through the gears. Ethanol torque is not the same as Regular gas, it is noticeably less.
When I do find non-etheanol Regular it purrrrs like a kitten at idle and great torque in all gears.

If the sticker is still there on yours, it will look like mine (pix below).
Mine shows 91 RON, not 87, but unsure if every model year is the same.


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tourman
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by tourman »

www.pure-gas.org find pure gas

jurgenbuell
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by jurgenbuell »

Wing--Man wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:00 pm
grantimus wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:30 pm
I know that running ethanol is bad for the carbs(not sure about fuel injection) and always run 91 octane in all our vehicles. On my '82 GL I've been trying really hard to avoid ethanol but its difficult since not all the 91 will specifically say its ethanol free. I've starting asking the store managers and am finding that alot of the 91 does contain E. So how can I best minimize the ill effects of ethanol? I've been running Seafoam or MMO in every tank of fuel, will this help with that or do I now ALSO have to run one of those ethanol type additives as well in addition to seafoam or MMO? maybe I'm just being anal retentive about it?
Seafoam and MMO I use without detriment. I am a little more conservative tho, I will use them about every 3rd to 5th tank fills when using ethanol. There are times I am not riding for a several days and the fuel sits.
I have little choice and have to use ethanol since I do not live in farm country.
Ethanol, the bike has a random miss at idle but not going through the gears. Ethanol torque is not the same as Regular gas, it is noticeably less.
When I do find non-etheanol Regular it purrrrs like a kitten at idle and great torque in all gears.

If the sticker is still there on yours, it will look like mine (pix below).
Mine shows 91 RON, not 87, but unsure if every model year is the same.

Fuel - 91 RON.png
Here in Belgium we only have 95 or 98 ron unleaded fuel. Ethanol in fuel is still rare overhere. I thought that the lower the ron the bigger risk of "detonation knock"
My 1986 GL1200 runs much better on 98 then on 95.
Have a nice ride.

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MoneyFor
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by MoneyFor »

jurgenbuell wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:18 am
Here in Belgium we only have 95 or 98 ron unleaded fuel. Ethanol in fuel is still rare overhere. I thought that the lower the ron the bigger risk of "detonation knock"
My 1986 GL1200 runs much better on 98 then on 95.
Have a nice ride.

Jurgen, sorry to contradict you here a bit, but 95 and 98 don't really exist anymore and are now E5 and E10, named after the % ethanol mixed with the gasoline. The previous
95 is now E10 so 10% ethanol and the previous 98 is now E5 with 5% ethanol.
Click HERE if you want to see my current bikes.

radionut
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by radionut »

If you absolutely must have gasoline that has no ethanol, it is really easy to remove ethanol from gasoline. In two words, add water, adding water to gasoline removes the ethanol the ethanol much prefers to be in solution with water than gasoline. So add enough water that it will absorb the ethanol, mix thoroughly, let the water/ethanol mix separate, the gas will float on the water. Finally after removing the gas, let the contaminated water and ethanol evaporate. Of course this would not be recommended for apartment dwellers, but anyone with a well vented work area should have no issues doing this with appropriate caution.

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MoneyFor
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by MoneyFor »

radionut wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:58 am
If you absolutely must have gasoline that has no ethanol, it is really easy to remove ethanol from gasoline. In two words, add water, adding water to gasoline removes the ethanol the ethanol much prefers to be in solution with water than gasoline. So add enough water that it will absorb the ethanol, mix thoroughly, let the water/ethanol mix separate, the gas will float on the water. Finally after removing the gas, let the contaminated water and ethanol evaporate. Of course this would not be recommended for apartment dwellers, but anyone with a well vented work area should have no issues doing this with appropriate caution.


That is already a new hobby :)
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jurgenbuell
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by jurgenbuell »

MoneyFor wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:53 am
jurgenbuell wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:18 am
Here in Belgium we only have 95 or 98 ron unleaded fuel. Ethanol in fuel is still rare overhere. I thought that the lower the ron the bigger risk of "detonation knock"
My 1986 GL1200 runs much better on 98 then on 95.
Have a nice ride.

Jurgen, sorry to contradict you here a bit, but 95 and 98 don't really exist anymore and are now E5 and E10, named after the % ethanol mixed with the gasoline. The previous
95 is now E10 so 10% ethanol and the previous 98 is now E5 with 5% ethanol.
Thank you for the updated advice then i will need to fill her with E5 in the future.

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tamathumper
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by tamathumper »

Jurgen is correct. European countries and most of the world report octane ratings in RON, whereas the US reports octane ratings in PON (an average of MON and RON). So Jurgen's 98 RON is the same as the USA's 93 PON (ish).

https://www.etuners.gr/fuel/
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newday777
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1983 GL1100A Wineberry 36,000 miles

1975 CB750 K5 Planet Blue 7,800 miles

1976 CB750 K6 Anterris Red 25,000 miles

Past rides
1999A Restored from PO neglect & sold at 19,000 miles

1999SE Totaled by cager at 105,000 miles

Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by newday777 »

MoneyFor wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:53 am
95 and 98 don't really exist anymore and are now E5 and E10, named after the % ethanol mixed with the gasoline. The previous
95 is now E10 so 10% ethanol and the previous 98 is now E5 with 5% ethanol.
Welcome to the forum

Where are you from?? East Flanders in your profile is all you put....

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MoneyFor
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by MoneyFor »

newday777 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:58 am
MoneyFor wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:53 am
95 and 98 don't really exist anymore and are now E5 and E10, named after the % ethanol mixed with the gasoline. The previous
95 is now E10 so 10% ethanol and the previous 98 is now E5 with 5% ethanol.
Welcome to the forum

Where are you from?? East Flanders in your profile is all you put....
Thanks, I'm from East Flanders in Belgium , I am not really new here, have been a member for several years but have actually read more than posted.
Click HERE if you want to see my current bikes.

kenbunch
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by kenbunch »

I guess I'm fortunate to live in the western US where we have Maverik Clear Gas available at most Maverik stations. They sell 87 octane ethanol free gas. Believe it or not I will plan some trips around AZ based on their station locations. I've been running only Maverik Clear Gas for years in my 2008 GL1800. I have actually gotten up to a 10% increase in gas mileage over ethanol added fuels. However, the cost of clear gas is usually the same as 91 octane, so it's a wash whether I'm saving any money. But at an average of 40mpg, I'm not worried. My mechanic raves about how clean the engine oil is at each change, so it must be a good thing to use clear (ethanol free) gas. Happy riding!

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newday777
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1983 GL1100A Wineberry 36,000 miles

1975 CB750 K5 Planet Blue 7,800 miles

1976 CB750 K6 Anterris Red 25,000 miles

Past rides
1999A Restored from PO neglect & sold at 19,000 miles

1999SE Totaled by cager at 105,000 miles

Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by newday777 »

MoneyFor wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:14 am
newday777 wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:58 am
MoneyFor wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:53 am
95 and 98 don't really exist anymore and are now E5 and E10, named after the % ethanol mixed with the gasoline. The previous
95 is now E10 so 10% ethanol and the previous 98 is now E5 with 5% ethanol.
Welcome to the forum

Where are you from?? East Flanders in your profile is all you put....
Thanks, I'm from East Flanders in Belgium , I am not really new here, have been a member for several years but have actually read more than posted.
Yes I noticed the date you joined but that you only had a few posts so I thought I'd welcome you anyhow.
The E5 you mentioned is not available here in the USA and is why I asked your location.

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MoneyFor
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by MoneyFor »

Yes, since last year it is at the gas stations expressed in E5 and E10, for the time being 95 and 98 are listed for ease of reference and as a reminder for the customer, but I expect that this will disappear completely with time.
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by WingAdmin »

radionut wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:58 am
If you absolutely must have gasoline that has no ethanol, it is really easy to remove ethanol from gasoline. In two words, add water, adding water to gasoline removes the ethanol the ethanol much prefers to be in solution with water than gasoline. So add enough water that it will absorb the ethanol, mix thoroughly, let the water/ethanol mix separate, the gas will float on the water. Finally after removing the gas, let the contaminated water and ethanol evaporate. Of course this would not be recommended for apartment dwellers, but anyone with a well vented work area should have no issues doing this with appropriate caution.
We've got an article here on that already: How to make your own ethanol-free gasoline

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MoneyFor
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Re: Minimizing effects of ethanol

Post by MoneyFor »

WingAdmin wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:04 am
radionut wrote: ↑
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:58 am
If you absolutely must have gasoline that has no ethanol, it is really easy to remove ethanol from gasoline. In two words, add water, adding water to gasoline removes the ethanol the ethanol much prefers to be in solution with water than gasoline. So add enough water that it will absorb the ethanol, mix thoroughly, let the water/ethanol mix separate, the gas will float on the water. Finally after removing the gas, let the contaminated water and ethanol evaporate. Of course this would not be recommended for apartment dwellers, but anyone with a well vented work area should have no issues doing this with appropriate caution.
We've got an article here on that already: How to make your own ethanol-free gasoline
Thanks for bringing this post to ower attention, I'm going to try this as a test :)


Click HERE if you want to see my current bikes.

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